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There is so much material on here about the Manor House and the rectory and their moats. All of the info has been here for quite some time and little is new although the posted painting is a new find but hardly different from others. The feed shown on the map to the moat is a Clearwater stream from Edgebaston and may have been augmented by well water in the area and also possibly run off water from the tail race from the grindstone wheel in Ann Street at one time. The lower water tracing on the map is not the Rae but a leat from a weir on the Rae further upstream (remains still visible I believe). It ran to the Mill Pool for Astericks Mill on Mill Lane Derrit End possibly along a course outlined by what became Claybrook Street visible on the 1890 survey...very little left now. The water from the Manor Moat also ran to this pool after first supplying power for a Malt Mill in Upper Mill Lane...just to the right of the picture. The whole chebang was demolished and replaced by Smithfield Market and if you look at the recent posting of a Bullring Photo within the last 24 hours...this house was located right where the stalls are at the bottom of the picture.
Thanks everyone for the info. Polly the maps are great now I know where the house was. My Uncle worked at Smithfield Market after he left the air force. He lived with us for 30 years and told us many tales. It's as Lyn says nice to get your bearings.
hi rupert...thanks for alerting us to the fact that there is more about the house on the forum. and i very vaugely seem to recall something but .as you know sometimes subjects get posted off thread making it difficult to locate other info unless it has its own thread...ie MANOR HOUSE ST MARTINS....ive used the search engine but can not locate so i wonder if you could point us in the right direction as to where to find the previous info...yes i know the bull ring pic you mentioned...hard to imagine the area once looked liked it did in the pic shirley posted...
The building in post 2 looks so much like one of the properties on Bernard Sleigh's picture map of Birmingham in 1730 imagined & drawn from city records". The orientation of the approach to the house house on the Sleigh's 1923 imagined picture map looks wrong, given that the post 2 painting was produced much earlier & shows St Martins spire in the background. Its interesting nonetheless.
Bassett, in Birmingham Before the Bull Ring speculates that the moated manor house was situated so as to control the passing point over the Rhea and that it was the moated manor house that came first, followed by the market place & St Martins, rather than vice versa. He contends that the moated manor property dated from the 12C. Charles Pye, in A Description of Modern Birmingham, reports that on the moated site there was Parsonage House, a low 1/2 timbered property and a tithe barn 60 yards long. Hutton, writing in 1830 the History of Birmingham maintains that there was the Propper Chappel and a mansion house of timber. Masterman, in The Story of the English Towns, is more interested in the demise of the moated area. He tells us that in 1815 the Commissioners bought the moat & moat house & on the site of the old manor house laid out the grid for the cattle market.
There were two distict moated buildings & the moats were linked -
*the main one which was the ancient seat of the Lord Birmingham (and the location if not the house is most likely to date back to 1166 when Peter De Birmingham bought from the King the right to hold weekly markets in his "Castle".
* The other one was the Parsonage, just South of the tri-junction of Smallbrook Street (surely meaningful name), Dudley Street & Edgbaston Street. It had a formal garden and most likely a tithe barn