Horse and Jockey - Bordesley Park Road

[Neville Philpott]

Does anyone have any knowledge about the 'Horse and Jockey' which used to stand on Bordesley Park Road.

When was it opened and closed and any other info about it?



thanks Neville..

 

[Phil]

Hi Neville

I can't tell you when it opened, but it must have closed in the early seventies when the opened the Small Heath bypass.

Phil

 

[beamish]

Hello Neville,

I lived right by the Horse and Jockey - on the corner of Bordesley Park Road and Miles Street, I left in 1969, and it was still open then. Used to have a pint there now and then. From memory - and I could be wrong - it was a Davenports House. The other pub in Miles Street was the Plume of Feathers which was a Mitchells & Butlers pub. At one time there may have been another in Miles Street called the Queens Arms but I don't remember it.

 

[mikejee]

There was a horse and jockey listed in kellys from 1940 to 1974. From 1884 till 1933 there was an establishment listed as either a beer retailer or beer & wine retailer on the site. Sometime between 1880 and 1884 the street was renumbered and its not clear if there was any licenced establishment on the site before. Beer retailer could be an off licence or more probably an establishment that only had a beer licence and not a full licence. It could still have been known as the horse & jockey, but , if so, was not listed as such in kellys
mike

 

[beamish]

I mentioned earlier that I thought the Horse and Jockey was a Davenports' House. I've looked in National Archives for the brewery, found it listed, but can't see the Horse and Jockey among their premises, so perhaps I was wrong - either that, or the beer was stronger than I thought!

 

[dwilly]

My wifes Grandfather used to play a clarinet and banjo in this pub apparently, his name was William Patrick Wilson, guess he was known as banjo bill! Would be great if anyone has an memories of this chap, he might well of played in other local pubs.

 

[Phil]

I couldn't find a photo of the Horse & Jockey but I managed to find one of Bordesley Park Rd, and I also managed to find one of the club mentioned round the corner in Miles St. The Gaylords.

Phil
Lost photos replaced by what I believe to be same as original

 

[beamish]

Dwilly,

Just out of interest was your wife's grand-father known as "Tug" Wilson?

 

[dwilly]

The wife says her Father was known as Tug Wilson in his army days, it might well be his father was also known as Tug, will call and ask in the morning as he is probably in bed now, I take it you knew a Tug Wilson then? Her father is 80 now known by various names over the years!

 

[beamish]

Dwilly,

It could well be the same 'Tug', Of course I was only a lad in the 50's but I seem to remember my dad having a pint with Mr Wilson probaly in the Horse and Jockey, The Old Lodge or the Plume of Feathers.

 

[dwilly]

Her father, my father-in-law, would have been around 40 then, he also "done a turn" with his singing, he would no doubt, have been found having a drink in any of the above mentioned pubs! can still be found in a few around Acocks Green, Fox Hollies area, they made "em well in them days! Must have been a memorial drink for you to remember it.

 

[Irishbrummie]

I couldn't find a photo of the Horse & Jockey but I managed to find one of Bordesley Park Rd, and I also managed to find one of the club mentioned round the corner in Miles St. The Gaylords.

Phil

I was underage and had to bunk into Gaylords,got caught but bouncer knew me Da. The last time I saw this bouncer he was an old man who had shrunk at least a foot.

"A picture is worth a thousand words" Nice one Phil.

 

[Icarus]

Strange how the memory deceives, I don't remember Bordesley Park Road being sloped! There was a church near the Coventry Road end where we attended Sunday School and a pub on the corner, The Lodge(?), later run by Blues' goalkeeper Dan Tremelling.

 

[beamish]

Icarus,

I don't think your memory has deceived you, Bordesley Park Road was not, is not sloped...there is a very fine incline as the road runs under the railway bridge, but there is no bridge visible in the photo. The Old Lodge was run by Dan Tremelling. A black and white pub on the corner of Coventry Road and Bordesley Park Road. I Lived near there from the 1940's, but don't remember any church other than the Gospel Hall which was just off Bordesley Park Road in Miles Street and another church hall opposite, close to the Plume of Feathers.

 

[dwilly]

Bordesley Park Road still exists, not sure if its exactly in the same place, but the Ibis and Formula 1 hotels are listed as being on Bordesley Park Road, obviously a little different these days, but does appear to be fairly level

 

[Phil]

I have no great knowledge of Small Heath, but you seem to be concentrating on the part of Bordesley Park Rd that remains. Don't forget that when walking up from Coventry Rd it did a sharp dog leg turn to the left where it met Bolton Rd and headed up towards Arthur St and there definitely was an incline there. I think the photo I posted was of this section.

It is up to this point the old junction with Bolton Rd, that remains today. The picture of the Gaylords the ex mission/church or whatever was in Miles St for certain. I do know that as I occasionally frequented the place.

Phil

 

[dwilly]

Just spoke to father-in-law, apparently him and his father were both known as Tug Wilson, had something to do with a boxing school in Dublin where they came from.

 

[Irishbrummie]

I have no great knowledge of Small Heath, but you seem to be concentrating on the part of Bordesley Park Rd that remains. Don't forget that when walking up from Coventry Rd it did a sharp dog leg turn to the left where it met Bolton Rd and headed up towards Arthur St and there definitely was an incline there. I think the photo I posted was of this section.

It is up to this point the old junction with Bolton Rd, that remains today. The picture of the Gaylords the ex mission/church or whatever was in Miles St for certain. I do know that as I occasionally frequented the place.

Phil

That picture of BPR threw me,its the way it curves of to the right That part of the Cov was know to us locals as Kingston Hill so your right about there begin inclines round about. The raiway was/is up on an huge embankment It might be an old photo before the bus depo was built thus altering the lay out

 

[Junie]

I have just come upon the thread re. The Horse and Jockey. Bordesley Park Road is as shown in the photograph. We lived in the maisonettes on Coventry Road during the war almost opposite Mount Pleasant...no one lived in Mount Pleasant...it had been bombed and it was one of our 'adventure playgrounds'. The first part of Bordesley Park Road was flat up to the railway bridge, but when you went under the bridge it turned sharp left and that section was definitely 'up hill'. We used to walk that way to visit my Aunt Rose who lived in Carrington Road and if you look at the photograph you can just see where Carrington Road runs off on the top right. I remember the Horse and Jockey well...my Grandad drank there...he drank everywhere. If you went along Miles Street, towards Sandy Lane (where my brother was born) on the same side as the Horse and Jockey, half way along on the left was a disused church which had been damaged by bombs. I can remember going inside and having a look around with my friends...there were books strewn everywhere (no such thing as Health and Safety in those days) and picking up a Bible with some of the pages torn...it came home with me!!! I was about 9 or 10 years at the time. Oh, how the memories come flying back. Behind the Horse and Jockey, this side of the railway bridge, ran a water course. A broken sewer? I can remember us children standing there watching loads of rats running about.

Junie

 

[Phil]

gham,

Hi & welcome, I remember the Waggon & Horses, Moseley Rd on the corner of Balsall Heath Rd. I often nicked in there for a pint in the 70's. Unfortunately I am not old enough to remember it from the 30's.

I wouldn't say that I remember it as a good pub, but I can't say that it was a bad one either.

Phil

 

[gham]

Thanks a lot Phil-brilliant in fact. Just been speaking to my 90 year-
-old Mother on the phone about your reply as she has memories of her aunt and uncle running that pub in1930/'31.
Do you have the date of the photo that you have posted of the 'Waggon & Horses'? or an indication of the date of the photo? Really appreciative of your prompt and informative reply..hope there's some more in the bag..many thanks in the meantime..

 

[steerboy]

Hi all
I can confirm that there certainly was a good hill in BPR as someone who used to "MOKE" down it in the late 40s I still have the scars to prove it as I lived at 8/90 Arther St.
The view is looking from the Bolton Rd end with the chippie half way up on the left the large light building top right is the Prince Arther pub while the shop with the canopy is in Arther St on the same side as the Bus Depot.

regards Steerboy.

 

[Phil]

gham

Sorry for the late reply, but I hadn't looked at this thread since I made my last post. Sorry to disappoint but would be as late as 1973 or later. The reason I know this is because if you look at the left of the photo you will see the brickwork of a new building. That is a factory that a friend of mine had purpose built in 1973, before that it was an empty site for a few years and before that it was housing.

I think you will find in the period you are interested in the 1930's, the pub may have looked a little different. As you can see plainly it was a Georgian house at sometime with a front garden and the flat roofed structure to the front was a later addition, perhaps when it became a pub or maybe at a later date.

Phil

 

[deanovilla]

Hi l lived at the top end of Bordesley Park Road , at the top of the road where it joined onto Arther street there seemed to be a big circle of road out side our house and the prince arther pub our house was some kind of large shop that my dad didnt open , opposite was a shop called wallace's , thats wallaces with the canopy our house was opposite that shop,l remember our house being a kind of maroon colour ,as was my dads cafe in balsall heath (must have got a job lot) , l was told the circle of road was where the buses would turn around before going into the rear entrance of the bus garage , behind our house was a big bomb peck and when the blues played ar home we would all rally round to mind the cars . a few of the bigger lads would dish the money out later , regards

 

[Rodlid]

Hi, you Bordesley Park Roadites. My grandfather was born in 'The Retreat' in this road. I guess it was some sort of Charity House for women 'lying in'. Anyone have any information on this place?

Brummie in Italy. (Born Small Heath)

 

[mikejee]

Te Retreat was just the name for a short road of houses. It can be seen in 1890 at https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...d=10099&ox=325&oy=3116&zm=1&czm=1&x=311&y=322 and the 1901 view of the road is similar
mike

 

[Junie]

Rodlid. The Retreat, according to a friend of mine no longer with us, was a residential yard of back to backs almost opposite the Horse and Jockey. She and her husband first lived there as newly weds round about 1948/1950. Some time back I saw a photograph I think of a Coronation party in the Retreat on Carl Chinn's website - Birmingham Lives.

Junie.

 

[Neville Philpott]

I couldn't find a photo of the Horse & Jockey but I managed to find one of Bordesley Park Rd, and I also managed to find one of the club mentioned round the corner in Miles St. The Gaylords.

Phil

What a great picture of Bordesley Park Road, would i be right in thinking that the Horse & Jockey is further on up the road and beyond the railway bridge?

regards Neville..

 

[Rodlid]

Te Retreat was just the name for a short road of houses. It can be seen in 1890 at https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...d=10099&ox=325&oy=3116&zm=1&czm=1&x=311&y=322 and the 1901 view of the road is similar
mike

Mike,

Thanks. I'd looked at that map before but not seen the Retreat. My great -grandfather moved from Chilton Foliat (nr Hungerford ) to Brum in 1872 and grandfather was born in1877 in The Retreat. I passed by the end of this road many times when I was a fireman at Tyseley Loco. We used to go down past St Andrews to Saltley/Washwood Heath to pick up trains for the south and west. Thanks again.

 

[Dakers]

I lived in Small Heath from 1976 -1981 and was a regular in the Horse & Jockey, it was a two bar Davenports pub on the corner of Miles Street. The landlord at that time was Noel McGuire, I don't know when it closed, when I returned for a visit in 1982 it was still there, but under the threat of closue to make way for the planned Small Heath by-pass. I enclose a photo taken in about 1978.