• Welcome to this forum Guest. We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

High Speed Train 2

Status
Not open for further replies.

Richarddye

master brummie
So I read on line as much as I could the cost the route and stations etc
I never read how many people they expect to use this service and how often
My question is how many people need to go to London from Birmingham every day at 200 MPH, at regular intervals through out the day ?
I can see there is a need to improve regular tracks and train service.
Have some of us become obsessed with speed, can we get our down load speeds up, can the microwave cook any quicker.
When I look in the rear view mirror of life I think to myself that time went by quickly, and you can be sure I am in no rush to reach the finish line.
Absolutely on point!
 

Robert Ensor (bob)

master brummie
Bob, I think another key part to your point is transportation en mass 25 years from now will be completely different and I doubt there will be wheels under it! There are many developing technologies, linear induction power and tubes are all on the horizon. Unfortunately as you point out assuming they are ready in 25 years the technology will be out of date and cost over the moon!
I may seem I'm going of topic but believe me it relates to Birmingham's and England's future travel and technology
Back in 75 a engineer from Jaguar told me in the future they would find it easier to train electrical engineers to repair Jaguars than guys like me.
He said we would open the boot pull out a disc and put it in a reader and it would have a record of the cars history
Well he was right but the disc played music and the reader plugs in to the car under the dash.
Now stay with me here because this we can do NOW.
You get home park the car go to bed but the car does a systems check and see's there is a problem
The car communicates with the dealer the system there orders or reserves the parts needed and informs your car.
One two days later the car drives it's self to the dealership the problem gets resolved then drives it's self back home.
These self driving cars why put a steering wheel in there, a lot of cars today that wheel is not connected to the steering, the wheel is there to make us feel safe have you seen how they steer cruise ships.
Back to mass transit what we really want is convenient transportation that's why we own cars, do I think we will be flying round Brum city center no.
I can see in our future small electric cabs like the ones at airports and travel to and from major city's by drones
Then the Eagle and Turn pub and other buildings would be safe and we would not need these massive inferstructure projects.
I think the effective life span is limited of the HS 2 but we can be sure it's coming.
 

Nico

master brummie
That is the whole point of HS2, add NEW lines that relieve some of the congestion on the existing lines.

The West Coast main line is crowded with trains so no room to add new routes / stations. A few years ago Virgin wanted to add a new route from Shrewsbury to New Street / London and there was no capacity on the West Coast main line.

Also New St station is full to capacity and they cant add more platforms.

By building a new HS2 TRAIN LINE from London, AND a new HS2 station in Birmingham it frees up capacity on the West Coast line AND at New St station to add more routes and stations.

Most of our train routes in the UK were laid 80 to 100 years ago, we have had very few NEW track laid since WW2.

Some countries have had High Speed lines for decades (Japan built theirs just after WW2 and have continued to improve and adapt it). You can virtually go from one end of Japan to the other on High Speed trains and we are still arguing about a line from London to Birmingham.
At the moment and only just about we still have a choice on what happens. I don't want to live in a Japan.
 

sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
Eric,

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! Some people just shouldn't be on the road. Ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa !!! :) :) :)

Maurice :cool:
 

Bob Johnson

master brummie
Eric,

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! Some people just shouldn't be on the road. Ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa !!! :) :) :)

Maurice :cool:
As I said in an earlier post: "Rubbish in equates to Rubbish out."
At least she had the sense to admit her mistake and learn from her experience. Many people would have blamed the car, the sat-nav, road works, the council, the government, the wife, the dog et al.
 

Richarddye

master brummie
At the moment and only just about we still have a choice on what happens. I don't want to live in a Japan.
Nico, one of the problems with the current approach is that with current work patterns, most of this high speed expensive stuff sits idle 70% of the time and worse on weekends. We need to look at changing work patterns or shut up about the cost. I ran a plant making parts for garden tractors in the US. We ran wide open from January to August as business grew we were faced with spending another 120 millions US$ for equipment that would sit idle for 60% of the time. We changed shift patterns and avoided the 120 million. We were a private company and had to pay the 120 on our own. Unfortunately all governments spend our money.
We did this 12 years ago in union and non union environments. We were very concerned about the folks reaction to different work schedules, they loved it! And oh by the way many car makers employ this approach.
 

Nico

master brummie
When you say 'Driving itself', what do you mean exactly. Did it have some kind of lane guidance, intrigued?
It can't overtake another vehicle, the driver sets the steering wheel and it slows down or speeds up itself in relevance with the vehicle in front and detects vehicles in proximity either side and behind.
 

Radiorails

master brummie
From the statistics in the links it will be seen that Birmingham New Street station almost doubled it footfall in the last decade and that was despite its major alteration work. It is a very busy place indeed.

 

Richarddye

master brummie
From the statistics in the links it will be seen that Birmingham New Street station almost doubled it footfall in the last decade and that was despite its major alteration work. It is a very busy place indeed.

Alan, these are nice charts, however if they really want to deal with the problem you need more information (which they most likely they have). Break the charts down by day then by hour, that will show where the pressure points are and what needs to be fixed. We do this with factory automation every day. I am working on a project in China and Italy where we are doing this. The owners of these companies have been very surprised pleasantly so where the problems really are and the solutions are being proven more cost effective.
Failure to do this breakdown the data will simply defer the problem and exacerbate the result! As Bob said earlier everyone seems obsessed with 200 mph, when 90 mph would be just as good and more financially effective and much timely to implement because most of that technology is available.
If they (governments everywhere) do not deal with the detail in the end after spending a lot of money, very little will change. All they are doing is deferring the inevitable. Something has to change instead of pushing it down the road to another generation!
 

Radiorails

master brummie
I only linked these ORR statistics to show how rail travel in the Birmingham area has increased in recent years. BHF being essentially historically orientated.
There are other statistics however, from which far more could be gleaned but I doubt most here would be that inclined.
 

Richarddye

master brummie
I only linked these ORR statistics to show how rail travel in the Birmingham area has increased in recent years. BHF being essentially historically orientated.
There are other statistics however, from which far more could be gleaned but I doubt most here would be that inclined.
Alan, I agree! I was trying to point out that you need more than top line numbers to really solve problems. As the saying goes: In God we trust all others bring data!
 

Spargone

master brummie
One of the problems with the current approach is that with current work patterns, most of this high speed expensive stuff sits idle 70% of the time and worse on weekends. We need to look at changing work patterns or shut up about the cost.
Just allocate everyone to one of the three 8-hour shifts at a 'tractor factory' located within 50 miles of their allocated dormitory module and, after 25 years faithful service, they can apply for a permit to visit The Great Leader's Palace in London, ('off-peak', of course).

Perish the thought that the common person can make choices for themselves.
 

Eric Gibson

master brummie
Just allocate everyone to one of the three 8-hour shifts at a 'tractor factory' located within 50 miles of their allocated dormitory module and, after 25 years faithful service, they can apply for a permit to visit The Great Leader's Palace in London, ('off-peak', of course).

Perish the thought that the common person can make choices for themselves.
Are you Jeremy Corbyn? :)

Mixing the subject up a bit..railways etc.

When the Soviet Communist regime were running the rail system in Russia there's a story about a route that was proposed to be closed, to keep it open they, in central government, said it would have to carry 100 tonnes of steel a day to be viable.

The local managers loaded it with the required 100 tonnes and never unloaded it, it ran for many years carrying just a few passengers and the same steel going back and forth, it was viable according to the paperwork.
 

Nico

master brummie
Are you Jeremy Corbyn? :)

Mixing the subject up a bit..railways etc.

When the Soviet Communist regime were running the rail system in Russia there's a story about a route that was proposed to be closed, to keep it open they, in central government, said it would have to carry 100 tonnes of steel a day to be viable.

The local managers loaded it with the required 100 tonnes and never unloaded it, it ran for many years carrying just a few passengers and the same steel going back and forth, it was viable according to the paperwork.
That sounds like the airlines who fly with empty seats or flights for a quid.
 

Heartland

master brummie
I suppose people like to argue. They select the facts that suit them. The London and Birmingham Railway is the core of the of the need for replacement, This railway was engineered by Robert Stephenson with viaducts and tunnel of that age. The London & North Western Railway made improvements and there are often 4 tracks to Euston. When first built there was an incline from London Euston to Camden with stationary steam engines drawing the coaches up to Camden.
 

carolina

master brummie
Personally, I think it will be a great advantage to Birmingham, the area will be upgraded, companies will be looking to move there as it will be commutable (and from the North eventually) and this will bring more finance into Brum.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top