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High Speed Train 2

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mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Guilbert.
All you say about the present position is true, but , as presented and how it probably will operate, is for HS2 to be a premium service aimed at speed and comfort for a few businessmen who want to travel to London, often on expenses . As such it will certainly result in some capacity being released on the older lines, but will not in itself be much use for normal passengers, who already realise that even the present fares are excessive
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
Guilbert.
All you say about the present position is true, but , as presented and how it probably will operate, is for HS2 to be a premium service aimed at speed and comfort for a few businessmen who want to travel to London, often on expenses . As such it will certainly result in some capacity being released on the older lines, but will not in itself be much use for normal passengers, who already realise that even the present fares are excessive
totally agree with you mike...yet another white elephant in my opinion....only time will tell

lyn
 

ellbrown

ell brown on Flickr
Saturday view of pyramids near Banbury Street (as I got to the Eagle & Tun)



Curzon Street Station after leaving The Eagle & Tun on Saturday evening.



View towards Birmingham City University from The Eagle & Tun. Just mounds of earth at the moment.

 

Robert Ensor (bob)

master brummie
So I read on line as much as I could the cost the route and stations etc
I never read how many people they expect to use this service and how often
My question is how many people need to go to London from Birmingham every day at 200 MPH, at regular intervals through out the day ?
I can see there is a need to improve regular tracks and train service.
Have some of us become obsessed with speed, can we get our down load speeds up, can the microwave cook any quicker.
When I look in the rear view mirror of life I think to myself that time went by quickly, and you can be sure I am in no rush to reach the finish line.
 

Robert Ensor (bob)

master brummie
I am not opposing to improving the inforstructure for the rail system.
I believe England has to find a way to relieve congestion on its roads, I read all the time about delays and the amount of traffic on the motorway.
 

Williamstreeter

master brummie
That is the whole point of HS2, add NEW lines that relieve some of the congestion on the existing lines.

The West Coast main line is crowded with trains so no room to add new routes / stations. A few years ago Virgin wanted to add a new route from Shrewsbury to New Street / London and there was no capacity on the West Coast main line.

Also New St station is full to capacity and they cant add more platforms.

By building a new HS2 TRAIN LINE from London, AND a new HS2 station in Birmingham it frees up capacity on the West Coast line AND at New St station to add more routes and stations.

Most of our train routes in the UK were laid 80 to 100 years ago, we have had very few NEW track laid since WW2.

Some countries have had High Speed lines for decades (Japan built theirs just after WW2 and have continued to improve and adapt it). You can virtually go from one end of Japan to the other on High Speed trains and we are still arguing about a line from London to Birmingham.
Guilbert53 I'm only arguing to the fact that we don't need it
 

Williamstreeter

master brummie
That is the whole point of HS2, add NEW lines that relieve some of the congestion on the existing lines.

The West Coast main line is crowded with trains so no room to add new routes / stations. A few years ago Virgin wanted to add a new route from Shrewsbury to New Street / London and there was no capacity on the West Coast main line.

Also New St station is full to capacity and they cant add more platforms.

By building a new HS2 TRAIN LINE from London, AND a new HS2 station in Birmingham it frees up capacity on the West Coast line AND at New St station to add more routes and stations.

Most of our train routes in the UK were laid 80 to 100 years ago, we have had very few NEW track laid since WW2.

Some countries have had High Speed lines for decades (Japan built theirs just after WW2 and have continued to improve and adapt it). You can virtually go from one end of Japan to the other on High Speed trains and we are still arguing about a line from London to Birmingham.
So why do the powers that be think we need to get to London quicker or back again . I would offer this as well that Japan as far as I am aware Guilbert is far bigger than the UK they may have a need for theirs
 

Robert Ensor (bob)

master brummie
HS2 estimates that they will add 13,000 peak hour seats on the West Coast route and that the West Coast Main Line is already near capacity after its last upgrade. Any future upgrade of the WCML only has the potential to add 3,000 seats.

See their claims here.
I need a little time to digest what i read in the link
But complaining about train travel being uncomfortable is the fault of the rolling stock, building a high speed line will not remedy that.
Building a new Intercity line to me sounds fair but does it need to be a high speed line that needs its own special trains and carriage, that can not be used else where on all the other track throughout the UK
I have watched a couple of programs on the Japanese high speed train system and it's impressive, but it's a maintenance nightmare, requiring it own special facility
So let's just build a nice new Intercity line with good rolling stock that we can service in the facilities we already have, and if we need to add seats we hook up another carriage because you can't do that with the bullet.
Here is another problem for me to take that high speed train i still need to go into town and there is nothing high speed about that or convenient, then never mind about the other end of the journey.
 

Radiorails

master brummie
HS2 will never be part of my life and travel, it is needed however. Despite the high costs, (30 million for Dawlish for instance and 100m each week NR says on passenger improvements) it will, as others here have said, relieve the existing west coast tracks, making more paths and trains available which will be very helpful to those along the route. The number of people using rail increases year by year - many trains at busy times are overcrowded. There is no real alternative as far as I can see as most of our railways were built back in the days of horse and cart. In towns and cities the only current option would be to demolish homes and other buildings presently close to the tracks in order to widen and lay more tracks. That would not be a welcome option I am sure. Unlike the M6Toll road it would be well used and yes, whilst many of us here are not in a hurry to get places a great many people are, so faster journeys may make a business trip more achievable in a day than at present, which would eliminate hotel costs.
It is claimed that this high speed rail is being built solely for the type and speeds of trains that will run on it, so hopefully that will be achieved.
Time and politics will tell!
 

Spargone

master brummie
Building a new Intercity line to me sounds fair but does it need to be a high speed line that needs its own special trains and carriage, that can not be used else where on all the other track throughout the UK
A new inter-city line needs a new route so to some extent there will still be the same objections as to HS2. Some of the trains on HS2 are intended to operate on existing routes so as to permit through trains to destinations not on the the HS2 line. The days of adding extra carriages to a train are long gone, platform lengths, signal positions, timetabling and stock positioning make that far too complicated for mainline trains. Besides which even 'conventional' trains are becoming very HS2-like, the Class 800 being introduced onto the Paddington - Bristol lines operates as 5-car and 9-car units, often with two 5-car units coupled together, (which makes it impossible to move down the train!). These trains can just shuttle backwards and forwards with no need to move a locomotive from one end to the other, (another reason why one can't just add a carriage).
 

Spargone

master brummie
I would offer this as well that Japan, as far as I am aware Guilbert, is far bigger than the UK. They may have a need for theirs
japuk.jpg
You are right about the sizes. Though the first 'Bullet Train' line was just 320 miles long, which isn't as far as London - Edinburgh which surely could benefit from a high-speed line.
 

Williamstreeter

master brummie
I need a little time to digest what i read in the link
But complaining about train travel being uncomfortable is the fault of the rolling stock, building a high speed line will not remedy that.
Building a new Intercity line to me sounds fair but does it need to be a high speed line that needs its own special trains and carriage, that can not be used else where on all the other track throughout the UK
I have watched a couple of programs on the Japanese high speed train system and it's impressive, but it's a maintenance nightmare, requiring it own special facility
So let's just build a nice new Intercity line with good rolling stock that we can service in the facilities we already have, and if we need to add seats we hook up another carriage because you can't do that with the bullet.
Here is another problem for me to take that high speed train i still need to go into town and there is nothing high speed about that or convenient, then never mind about the other end of the journey.
Bob the only way I want high speed is one way and thats out of London the quicker the better
 

Richarddye

master brummie
So as someone that's been out of the loop both on the new trams and HS 2 and reading the Eagle and Turn thread I thought some education on the subject for me was needed.
I've read the fors and the against arguments both sides have valid points.
The current cost estimate for me is still low do not get me wrong 88 Billion is no small number but I fear the further we get down the rails the larger the cost will become
If all goes well and high speed rail gets completed in 2035 ?, that would be 25 years from the germ of the idea and forecasting costs that far ahead bothers me

Let me switch tracks here and float a thought
The CES show has just taken place here in America ( consumer electronics show ) and one of the big items getting a lot of buzz was small drones capable of carrying people
Shown was a collaboration drone between Hyundai and Uber, with a estimated realized time of 10 years.
Look how quick technology is moving two brothers at the beginning of the last century had the first powered flight on a beach, 70 years later we were walking on the Moon.
We had CD players that at first would skip if you hit a bump in the road that got fixed with a chip, well that chip had more computing power than the Apollo Rocket that went to the moon.
Look what's in your handbag or front trouser pocket a hand held device there let's you communicate any where in the world and God knows what else.
We already have self driving cars and trucks on our roads, what's stopping us from having self flying drones and if that's the case why bother with rails at any speed.
Do not misunderstand I can see a need for short rail journeys and jumping on a tram
How about I live in Rednal and I want to travel to London I go to Cofften Park hop on a Uber drone fly to London hop off in Hyde Park just like a rock star.
Bob, I think another key part to your point is transportation en mass 25 years from now will be completely different and I doubt there will be wheels under it! There are many developing technologies, linear induction power and tubes are all on the horizon. Unfortunately as you point out assuming they are ready in 25 years the technology will be out of date and cost over the moon!
 

Richarddye

master brummie
r
View attachment 140643
You are right about the sizes. Though the first 'Bullet Train' line was just 320 miles long, which isn't as far as London - Edinburgh which surely could benefit from a high-speed line.
Remember the bullett train was built 50 years ago, this will be three quarter of a century afterward! 75 years, put that into context with Bobs comments.
 
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