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HELP NEEDED PLEASE

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi folks...i have looked but so far to no avail to find any ww1 records or info on

private john hollier b birm 1886..3rd batt royal warwicks army no 20391...cant even find any medal record for him...thanks in advance

lyn
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
yes thanks pen i have him there...most likely his service records did not survive...

lyn
 

pjmburns

master brummie
After a bit of digging it seems most likely that his service record was one of those destroyed. It also seems that the 3rd Battalion were a reserve unit who never actually left the UK - ending at Parkhurst on the IOW. As such I don't think they were awarded medals as these seem to be awarded for "fighting in a theatre of war". So there is no medal card for him either.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
many thanks jan that would explain why no record of war medals given...

lyn
 

rosie

brummie
Hi lyn, my Grandfather's records were burnt too but there is a medal card on Ancestry for him. Normally Fold3 isn't included but during this free time it is (unless it was a mistake!) I found a pension document about his trench foot! You can register for a free account for limited searches etc.
rosie.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
thanks rosie but i believe that the 3rd battalion royal warwicks did not actually fight in a theatre of war and did not leave the uk so therefore would not be entitled to any medals...i was so lucky that my own grandads service records did survive

lyn
 

Malc Toy

The Baggie Man
Interesting conundrum Lyn.

The Great War is of particular interest to me as my Handsworth born grandfather fought with the 286th Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery being involved in several of the great battles. He survived the terrible conflict without a scratch, ironically only to be fatally knocked down by an Austin Seven on the Birmingham Road, West Bromwich in October 1931.

Contrary to the above post by Janice, every member of the armed services would have received, whether on active service or not, at least a British War and Victory medal - otherwise known as ‘Pip & Squeak’,

Had you not known his rank, service number and regiment, my guess would have been that he was using a false name - there are many many ‘AKA’s‘ who, for whatever reason, served in the Great War.

You could try: https://www.greatwarforum.org/

which is an amazing site and full of very knowledgeable people who would love the challenge.

Stay safe, Stay well
 
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pjmburns

master brummie
National Archives states that: medals were awarded to forces who served abroad - the unit in this query did not go overseas. That is why we assume he had no medal card.
 

sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
That is correct, Janice. My father served in the Great War and I am lucky to have his service records. But medically he was grade C3 - the lowest. He joined the RWR at Curzon Street. After basic training he was transferred to the Labor Corps - and yes, it did exist contrary to a remark by someone else on the Forum. However, they found that the work was too hard for him, and after three months he was transferred to the Royal Tank Corps at Bovington where is was made camp postmaster and served out the rest of his service there. He was NOT awarded any medals and his name does not appear in the Medal Card Index. He never left England.

Maurice :cool:
 

Malc Toy

The Baggie Man
How embarrassing and my apologies !

I've been studying the Great War quite extensively since the mid-1980's and even written and compiled an 'easy read' guide book based around the opening day of the Battle of the Somme, 1st July 1916. In all that time I had believed that all military participants involved in that dreadful conflict received at least two medals - 'Pip & Squeak'

That said, it is somewhat questionable and unfair that only overseas service qualified and those on the home front performing vital war work were ignored including those serving in Ireland plus those subject to the Zeppelin raids which killed a number of people.

Lyn, I have looked on the WFA pension records site and there were three John Hollier's but none matching your man the nearest being a John Hollier who was in the South Staffords. However, following the army re-organisation of early 1918 a lot of men were transferred to different regiments to fill gaps and John may have been one of the 1000's involved.
 
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izzy eckerslike

Yaw've med my day yaw ave
My Grandad on my mothers side was a medic/ stretcher bearer in WW1 with the Royal Warwickshire regiment, 200762 Pte F. GRAY. 5/ R.WAR-R.
We always thought he won his medal in Italy but someone checked for me via the 1/5th Warwicks battalion history and he won his MM in Austria around 2/3/4/5 November, 1918. In the mountains on the border with Italy. repeatedly crawling out under fire to drag injured soldiers to safety.

I remember as a child & we had a school project about the first world war, I asked my grandad about it, he told me that before going to Italy he was in France & I think Belgium, back then they were forced out from the trenches into the waiting enemy fire, you were shot as cowards if you didn't go over the top as ordered.

He recalled wave after wave of young men being mown down by machine gun fire & lying there crying & screaming for their Mother. Sometimes there was some kind of a lull in the fighting which allowed stretcher bearers to collect the wounded.

medal-horz.jpg
 

bewdley

master brummie
The National Archives are giving free access to some of their digital military records at the moment. You have to register first, but once registered you get free access. I found this for your grandfather courtesy of the National Archives. 1601750036494.png
 

izzy eckerslike

Yaw've med my day yaw ave
Thank you bewdley,
that's the first time I've seen it, it does mention Italy there but someone researched the battalion history and found out it was actually over the border into Austria.
Grandad had a hard life although he lived into his nineties, he was a foundling left in a basket on a doorstep somewhere in Victorian Birmingham
I never knew my Grandmother, she died giving birth to my mum and then his wife's family shunned him and he was left to care for two girls. He advertised for a wife and a deaf lady replied and they were married, I can just about remember her
 

bewdley

master brummie
Thank you bewdley,
that's the first time I've seen it, it does mention Italy there but someone researched the battalion history and found out it was actually over the border into Austria.
Grandad had a hard life although he lived into his nineties, he was a foundling left in a basket on a doorstep somewhere in Victorian Birmingham
I never knew my Grandmother, she died giving birth to my mum and then his wife's family shunned him and he was left to care for two girls. He advertised for a wife and a deaf lady replied and they were married, I can just about remember her
You're welcome izzy eckerslike. It never fails to amaze me how some survived the awful life experiences they did and yet went on quietly living the best life they could. This is the sort of social history that should be kept alive. Such a sad start to a life, and his bravery showed again when he looked after his daughters. Hopefully he found happiness in his later years.
 

izzy eckerslike

Yaw've med my day yaw ave
There must be records of my Grandfather somewhere that describes where he was found, also how he was given the name Frank Gray, my middle name is Frank. He must have been raised in an orphanage somewhere
The Grandmother I never knew had the maiden name Faunt and she must have died on Oct 1st 1921 when my mother was born, or perhaps a few days later with an infection.
 
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bewdley

master brummie
I would hope there are records somewhere for your Grandfather. I have had a quick look and not found anything and I have to go out now, but I will pick it up when I return later unless someone else has found something for you. Do you mind giving your mother's name? I can't find a Gray birth mmn Faunt in 1921 or on the 1939 with that date of birth. That doesn't mean she's not there as there are mis-transcriptions etc.
 

izzy eckerslike

Yaw've med my day yaw ave
That's very kind bewdley, my mothers name was Marion Faith Gray, one sister, probably 1 or 2 years older called Nancy
 

MWS

master brummie
I would hope there are records somewhere for your Grandfather. I have had a quick look and not found anything and I have to go out now, but I will pick it up when I return later unless someone else has found something for you. Do you mind giving your mother's name? I can't find a Gray birth mmn Faunt in 1921 or on the 1939 with that date of birth. That doesn't mean she's not there as there are mis-transcriptions etc.
Slight confusion I think. Izzy's mother and grandmother were both called Marion. Grandmother - Marion Alvey Jervis b1897, mmn Faunt. Mother - Marion Faith Gray b1922, mmn Jervis.
 
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