Hare and Hounds, Kingstanding

[Marc]

For anyone interested and for future posterity, here a layout guide to when I lived at the pub.

I also remember that the Bungalow next door always had a beautiful back garden, unlike ours which was huge and difficult to maintain especially as we didn't even have a law mower.

I do recall finding hundreds of old clay pipes in the back garden surrounding the green. Presumably from back in it's hey day.
The cellars were also huge downstairs and very very creepy. The was a long long wide corridor arrangement underneath the pub that lead out to the underground servery. That's what people may have called the tunnel.
When we left we left behind a pair of real Bulls horns and a Kudu skull with long horns. Heaven knows where they ended up.
My Father was effectively forced out of the trade on an early ill health pension. He had been one of the only Landlords able to control the patrons through being firm but fair. Whilst Dad ran the pub, profits increased for the first time in decades until a new area manager arrived. Then suddenly the stocks began to show dramatic shorts despite weekly stock takes and Mom and Dad buying several bottles of spirits every week to help make up the losses.
The cause of this was either theft by staff and/or customers, or simply the brewery wanting to get my Dad out early to put in a new manager along with a refit but mainly to avoid paying him a full pension which was due within just a few years.

Sadly, he was forced to leave due to a heart attack brought on by the stress of the low stocks. ( I had personally seen one member of staff drinking from the optics before the bar opened) No names mentioned, but as they had to move out quickly into a normal semi detached house, we had to leave behind so many belongings including clothes, furniture, personal items including medals and various things my parents had collected during their time in the trade including Grandfather and Gran Mother clocks etc.
(Apologies if my punctuation and paragraphs are bad but I'm just writing this straight down as it comes from memory).

We moved to Sutton Coldfield where Dad lived till he was 83 and Mom 84 but Dad was almost 10 years older than Mom.

I will try to dig out some photos but I don't have many. I do have pics of the Barmen Jerry and Bill Bailey along with a photo of Dolly who worked the OAP's club in the lounge along with the lovely Elsie.

I also vividly remember the gorgeous older woman Pat of whom I had a huge crush (Embarrassed smile) and her husband whos name surpasses me at present. (Possibly John, they used to live off Kingstanding Road up past Hawthorne Road somewhere, near a small row of shops.

I'll try to set all this out in some resemblance of order at a later date. At the moment I'm lying in my sick bed recalling all these fond memories. I don't really know if they are of interest to anyone, or just meaningless ramblings but one day, perhaps in a few decades and if this great community is still thriving, my dribble may be of some use to someone. I mean that in the nicest possible way. I'm sure I will add more whilst I have the strength to write, so please excuse me if my posts gone on a little. I apologise in advance.

 

[Marc]

No, sorry Marc, but I'm sure my mom would have remembered it. If there was anything going on there she'd have known about it.

All your 6d's went to a good cause in the Candy Stores. The owners (Mr &Mrs Stanworth) were the first people we knew to have a COLOUR TV. I went round there to watch it (they lived above the shop) and the first thing I saw in colour was 'Family at War'. Was mesmerised by it. So thanks for spending all your dads cash in there! Viv.

Hey Viv, we had to use Radio Rentals to hire our first enormous Colour Tv inside a huge wooden sliding door piece of furniture with a long cable on the remote control hehe.

Atlantic Road to me at that time was where the posh people lived Viv. I used to have a schoolmate who lived there, she went to Perry Common and I can see her face now. She was posh but once again her name has dropped from my memory.

 

[Marc]

Be good to see photos Marc. I'm sure my dad would have known about it if there was a connection. My aunt and nan went to live in Hollywood in the 1950s, but regularly came back to Birmingham in the summer. Americans/LAPD being on our doorstep would certainly have been of interest. LAPD covered Hollywood, seems quite a coincidence!

Mind you, my aunt used to tell me that when she was in Birmingham people would ask her things like :"do you know so-and-so from New York?" She'd always be amazed at the lack of knowledge of the vastness of the US. Viv.

So there is a Los Angeles link. I'm sure the man I spoke to had links or even worked for the department at some stage. We may never know, but amazing to recall that night. Were you there with them Viv when they came into to the pub?
I know my Mother Joanne was most excited to welcome them over.
You know, thinking back I'm sure she said we were related to someone in the group and that they now only rarely come back to the UK. I do recall that they had 1000% American accents.

So, in 1982 I was 17, I'm almost sure the visit was earlier than that?

 

[Vivienne14]

How good to hear your memories Marc. I know people will be interested to hear about your time there from the point of view of those knowing the area, hearing about what it was like for a youngster living in a pub, the historical aspects and many more aspects ....... So keep 'em coming. And thanks it's certainly jogging my memory too. Hope you feel better soon.

Oh and no, we weren't posh. But some neighbours certainly had other ideas! Viv.

 

[Vivienne14]

Yes I was with my aunt and nan. My aunt had a definite American accent and was a very glamorous lady. My nan didn't have much of an American accent as she didn't spend so much time in the US. For many years she spent winter out there and came back to stay in Birmingham for the summer. Don't know why except it was probably to do with the climate; don't think she liked British winters. Eventually she settled back in Birmingham. The date would have been about mid-1970s when we, the '3 generations', came to the H&H. Definitely wasn't in the 80s as I'd moved away by then. Viv.

 

[Marc]

So there is a Los Angeles link. I'm sure the man I spoke to had links or even worked for the department at some stage. We may never know, but amazing to recall that night. Were you there with them Viv when they came into to the pub?
I know my Mother Joanne was most excited to welcome them over.
You know, thinking back I'm sure she said we were related to someone in the group and that they now only rarely come back to the UK. I do recall that they had 1000% American accents.

So, in 1982 I was 17, I'm almost sure the visit was earlier than that?

Edit ...Sorry Viv, you said 1974 which is about right. I was a mere 9 years of age haha

 

[Vivienne14]

Marc, just occurred to me our visit would have been in June/ July/ August time. They'd usually be out of the U.K. by September. And I think it was daytime or possibly early evening when it was still light. I remember the sunlight pouring through the pub windows, viv.

 

[Astoness]

The cellars were also huge downstairs and very very creepy. The was a long long wide corridor arrangement underneath the pub that lead out to the underground servery. That's what people may have called the tunnel.

hi marc just quoting the above bit from you and yes i bet this is where the story about the tunnel comes from..its strange that you mentioned finding loads of old clay pipes in the back garden....my brother who lives some roads away in plumstead road has over the years also dug up many pipes...

lyn

 

[Vivienne14]

I can fully understand clusters of clay pipes in the H&H (former Greyhound) grounds, but as you say, not as far away as Plumstead Road Lyn. All of the area pre-1920/30s was farmland with agricultural-related buildings, a few mills and water services. Maybe there was previously a farm or farm buildings on the ground that's now Plumstead Road. Could it be connected with Warren Farm/Pool(e)? I expect they'd have to be buildings where groups of men congregated (although we do know of course that women were also known to smoke a pipe). So my guess is Plumstead Road is on top of Warren/Pool(e) Farm land. Think we need a map and a separate thread perhaps?

And wonder if there's any chance of a kind person posting photos of the finds maybe? Viv.

 

[mikejee]

Clay pipes are often found in rubbish sumps, and these were not controlled and could be anywhere back around 1900.

 

[Vivienne14]

Very possibly Mike. Pity though, I'd like to think they came from or were connected to a particular building or activity. Like the H&H ones Viv.

 

[mikejee]

Viv
Below ar emaps c 1884, c1904 and c 1937 with red arrow at junction of Plumstead Road and Dulwich Grove. As you can see the only nearby buildings are Warren Farm and the infection diseases hospital. Depending on which part of Plumstaed Road, I would think it would come from one of those

 

[Morturn]

People who smoked would have several clay pipes. They would use them for a week or so, then burry then in the garden for a couple of weeks. The earth would freshen the pipes up again.

 

[Astoness]

mike my brothers house would be in between warren farm and the hospital but not directly on the land of either so i guess the pipes he found were just random...had a word with him and the ones hes found were incomplete...they had no bowls to them..

thanks mort thats good info..i didnt know that...

 

[Vivienne14]

Isn't it usually the other way around? Don't people mostly find pipe bowls but not the stems? Perhaps that tells us something. Viv.

 

[Marc]

I used to find the majority of the pipe pieces around the edges of the bowling green but there were others scattered all around the large gardens. I'm talking about hundreds of different pipe bowls and stems, with some of the bowls being quite ornate and some shaped like faces. I never found a full in tact pipe but I did find a good few almost perfect in tact bowls if that's the right name of them.

I've uploaded an image I found on Pinterest below as an example, it's not my image but these pipes are very similar to what we found.
I used to think they must have been from early members of the bowls club but I don't actually know when the bowling green first came into existence.

 

[estelle greenwood]

Does anyone know who owns the land now please?

 

[xixtomxix]

Bump.. I've been watching this for a while now, and a few weeks ago I noticed the gates had no lock on them, so today I went and had a nose after work!

 

[Astoness]

thanks for the updated photos son (tom)..how very dare you go mooching without me lol...on a serious note i am wondering just how long this pub will sit lanquishing for as i would imagine that even if we could get inside it must be in a very dangerous state by now...also be interesting to find out when it is eventually demolished if they find the underground tunnel that i was told about that leads from the pub to the fielded area out the back.. re post 107 i cant be certain about this but i think it could be council property but would need to be checked out

 

[Radiorails]

Looking back a few posts I saw the ones regarding the clay pipes. The problem with them is that they were easily broken and there for not much use afterwards, but they were usually cheap to buy. There were many designs and styles, the more intricate, the more expensive. They gave a cool smoke and were a favourite in many country pubs. The briar pipe could often be repaired if the stem broke or even a new stem purchased.
Don't overlook the clay pipe children bought for blowing bubbles.

 

[sospiri]

Lyn,

Urban exploring is in the family then? Probably not too difficult to get inside, but with no roof for a considerable period of time and umpteen rainstorms since the fire, the floors, if there are any left, must now be in a pretty precarious state. There's probably little if anything worth preserving. Hence the risk of serious damage to one's person is most likely not worth taking.

Maurice

 

[Astoness]

yes maurice our tom is certainly following in my footsteps..he is always on the lookout for anything of interest..i reckon the reason i did not get invited to this photo shoot was because he cant trust me not to try and get inside like i used to do lol...bit more careful now though... getting too old to take chances

 

[Anne70]

The Hare and Hounds was my family’s local in the 60’s and 70’s. My Grandad Cal Marshall ran the football club there. Shame it’s now a derelict wreck.

 

[Malcog]

My friend used to live by the bus stop (number 357 I think) just up the road and we often had a couple op pints in the Hare & Hounds in the 70s. He used to call it the spew and bucket, but then it seemed a decent pub.

 

[Astoness]

sad to say the pub is in an even worse state now...it really should have been demolished after the fire

lyn

 

[Vivienne14]

Surprised it’s been left like that Lyn. Must be dangerous. If memory serves the previous pub on the site would have been there before the 1930s municipal development of Kingstanding. With the old cottages next door, and sitting in amongst farmland, it would have been a welcome stopping off point for travellers along Holly Lane (Kingstanding Road) and for quenching the thirst of farm workers on their way home. The pub and the cottages would have been a little isolated community.

Seems so sad that, despite this being a later pub, a reminder of the site’s history has literally gone up in smoke. It was certainly a landmark of my childhood and now it just looks so dreadful. Expect it won’t be replaced by a pub. Viv.

 

[Astoness]

same as the kingstanding pub at the circle viv...fire damaged a few months back but they have now demolished the roof for safety...rest of the pub still standing...dont know if it still stands but the plan for the hare and hounds land was to build housing but ran up against public opinion...no idea how things stand now though

lyn

 

[lynnehart]

If you were at the H&H until 1982 Marc you must have been living there when I had a memorable visit to the pub. My aunt and nan (originally from Birmingham) came over to visit us from the USA. It must have been about 1974. My aunt, my nan, my mum, and I all went for a drink in the H&H together before my aunt and nan went back to the States. My nan commented about how remarkable it was that, sitting around the table, were 4 generations of women of our family having a drink together. Well it was the one and only time it happened, but when anyone mentions the H&H I always go back to that memory.

You might remember my mum (Nora) who worked across the road at the Candy Stores junction of Tresham and Kingstanding Road.

I started a thread on Cranbourne Rd School so I'll see if I can find it. Might bring back more memories for you! Viv.

We've just been for a walk down Kingstanding Road and knew somebody would appreciate this. The Nursery must be getting a new sign and they've exposed the sign underneath.

 

[Vivienne14]

Wow, thank you so much. I spent a lot of time there, my mum worked for the Stanworths. It was a large shop, and they used to keep Alsation dogs in the garden - this was on Tresham Road. They'd kick off at anyone who walked past, frightened the living day lights out of me on many occasions.I went to the Stanworths flat (above the shop) and they had a colour TV, the first I'd ever seen. The programme was 'A Family at War'. Mrs Stanworth thought she was the bees knees, bless her.

Think I mentioned in the Kingstanding thread, my friend and I bought our hoola hoops at the shop. Also we'd always go there for boxes for Bonfire Night, plenty to be had from the shop. We also picked Golden Rod in the field just further down Kingstanding Road (it now has houses built on it) and sold bunches on the low wall that used to be in front of the shop. Expect the Stanworths didn't mind us doing it as my mum worked there.

The shop was always busy, must have been a very good business. I know the shop was still there in the 1970s, but don't know when the Stanworths sold up. In more recent times it was a nursery school.

Lovely that the sign has been uncovered in its original state. Thanks for posting Lynn. Viv.

 

[Astoness]

well its been over 4 years now since the pub went up in flames and it was just left to decay but demo is now under way ...shame to lose yet another pub

lyn