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Gun Factories / Gun Quarter - Staff Lists ??

Hi changinman1

I thought I had more on my GGMs family but I dont. I only recently started going back from my GGMs line a few weeks ago. I looked on Family Search this morning for Hannah's family but without any success - maybe someone on BHF can help. All I can tell you is what appears on the Marriage certificate:

20th June 1858
Alfred Thomas - Age 24 - residing at 86 Great Russel St - occ Button tool maker - Father: Edward Thomas - Brass Founder
Hannah Field - Age 22 - residing at 16 Brealey St - Father:Thomas Field - Gun Maker

Witnesses:Richard Henry Thomas and Harriet Eliza Thomas

They have 4 children - Annie (my GGM) , Rosa, Ada and Julia

At Some point they are all residing at 140 Brearley Street but as to when they moved here I cant tell but they are both at this address between 1881 and 1901. In 1871 they were in Duddeston district but I dont have the address.

Alfred and Hannah were buried in a family grave at Warstone along with my GGMs sister, Rosa and 2 of my GGMs children Rose and Frederick
 
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I tend to agree with you Lyn. There were lots of small gun workshops. Lots of them did not make complete guns, they specialised in making key parts, lock, stock and barrel.

I would imagine that a lot of these small workshops also changed hands or ownership. So may have been absorbed into bigger outfits.

I am also wondering if these small workshops operated on casual labour, therefore record maybe thin on the ground.
I use a couple of smiths in price st.where i go in the workshop.its fascinating,all the old tools.some hand made. the gun quarter was a hive of activity once.
Gun Quarter - Wikipedia

The Gun Quarter - History of Birmingham Places A to Y
William Powell's Gunmakers Shop, Carrs Lane
 
Hi changinman1

I thought I had more on my GGMs family but I dont. I only recently started going back from my GGMs line a few weeks ago. I looked on Family Search this morning for Hannah's family but without any success - maybe someone on BHF can help. All I can tell you is what appears on the Marriage certificate:

20th June 1858
Alfred Thomas - Age 24 - residing at 86 Great Russel St - occ Button tool maker - Father: Edward Thomas - Brass Founder
Hannah Field - Age 22 - residing at 16 Brealey St - Father:Thomas Field - Gun Maker

Witnesses:Richard Henry Thomas and Harriet Eliza Thomas

They have 4 children - Annie (my GGM) , Rosa, Ada and Julia

At Some point they are all residing at 140 Brearley Street but as to when they moved here I cant tell but they are both at this address between 1881 and 1901. In 1871 they were in Duddeston district but I dont have the address.

Alfred and Hannah were buried in a family grave at Warstone along with my GGMs sister, Rosa and 2 of my GGMs children Rose and Frederick

The reason I found your post coincidental is that in the last couple of weeks I've located all of my GGMs children from 2 previous marriages via BHF, including my GFs half brother Norman Smith, his wife and two children. The children were placed in a Catholic Childrens home after he died in 1932 and his wife was placed in an asylum in the same year - our family having been told they were sent to Canada, all attempts, by my GGMs brother in law to locate them and put them into the family business came to an end !

The first link includes your relative Hannah Thomas (nee Field) who would have been their GM - assuming she is related to your family line?

The second thread was created almost 11 years ago and led me to contact a distant relative of my GFs half brother

The threads may not be of interest to you as they are "branching off" from your original request but I wanted to show how even the smallest pieces of info and longshots, with help from BHF members, can produce results

Let us know how you get on!
Hi ...I don't know if we are related but such close co-incidences , my fields lived in brearley st at certain times and 4 back 80 great Russell street for a long time too .....mmmm wonder if they knew each other
 
I'm sure there is a connection somewhere but would need to check census records around 1861 but only have access via FamilySearch and this doesn't bring up much!!

As you've probably gathered gun making was somewhat of a "cottage industry" but a few years back I created a 1891 census database for Warwickshire. I ran a few queries and came up with the following totals for gun related jobs for the Birmingham area (I'd do a breakdown by gun component but the census occupations would have to be standardised and would take a few hours! :

Gun manufacturing: 5023
Ammunition: 1068

With regard to your area of interest:

People with the surname Field : 746
People with surname Armfield : 42

People with surname Field and Armfield with gun or munnitions related job titles (I included one Gothic engraver as I thought this could be related)
1591871570799.png
 
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I'm sure there is a connection somewhere but would need to check census records around 1861 but only have access via FamilySearch and this doesn't bring up much!!

As you've probably gathered gun making was somewhat of a "cottage industry" but a few years back I created a 1891 census database for Warwickshire. I ran a few queries and came up with the following totals for gun related jobs for the Birmingham area (I'd do a breakdown by gun component but the census occupations would have to be standardised and would take a few hours! :

Gun manufacturing: 3240
Ammunition: 672

With regard to your area of interest:

People with the surname Field : 746
People with surname Armfield : 42

People with surname Field and Armfield with gun or munnitions related job titles (I included one Gothic engraver as I thought this could be related)
View attachment 145703
mebenne, this is really great information! Also so very revealing. The percentage of people employed in the gun trade clearly shows the industry concentration at that time. If you were to add to that the other support folks and families it must have a huge impact on Birmingham.

Thank you for lifting the curtain so to speak, being such a long way away its wonderful insight. Living in the southern US there is a lot of history about the American Civil War, what I have noticed that many of the guns and swords used by both sides were made in Birmingham.

Thank you!
 
David Williams book "The Birmingham gun Trade" states that, during the civil war, 733,403 guns were supplied by Birmingham to America as opposed to 344,802 from London
 
David Williams book "The Birmingham gun Trade" states that, during the civil war, 733,403 guns were supplied by Birmingham to America as opposed to 344,802 from London
wow ....tiwice that of London and thats probably why my paternal grandfathers moved up from London then for the jobs up here ?!?!?
 
I'm sure there is a connection somewhere but would need to check census records around 1861 but only have access via FamilySearch and this doesn't bring up much!!

As you've probably gathered gun making was somewhat of a "cottage industry" but a few years back I created a 1891 census database for Warwickshire. I ran a few queries and came up with the following totals for gun related jobs for the Birmingham area (I'd do a breakdown by gun component but the census occupations would have to be standardised and would take a few hours! :

Gun manufacturing: 3240
Ammunition: 672

With regard to your area of interest:

People with the surname Field : 746
People with surname Armfield : 42

People with surname Field and Armfield with gun or munnitions related job titles (I included one Gothic engraver as I thought this could be related)
View attachment 145703
so are these the addresses of their employers ??

so ...I can say that definitely related to me are ....
Sarah Field (married to Joseph Field my gt gt paternal GF
The other Fields I would need more data on to make a judgement call
How do you link them to me or did you just pull out some random Fields related to the GQ

Thankyou so much , any info that you can get me will help unlock my past
 
so are these the addresses of their employers ??

so ...I can say that definitely related to me are ....
Sarah Field (married to Joseph Field my gt gt paternal GF
The other Fields I would need more data on to make a judgement call
How do you link them to me or did you just pull out some random Fields related to the GQ

Thankyou so much , any info that you can get me will help unlock my past
Sorry can't answer that. All I know is that my GGF's wife's family was named Field and lived in Brearley Street in 1858. I was hoping you had info on your side to connect the families. What I've done is to identify all the "Fields" still working in the gun trade over thirty years later, in 1891, in the hope that you can make an association.
As the info is based on census data the given address would be their home address which may or may not be their place of work. As for the link between Sarah and Joseph Field I can't say as the 91 census shows that she is widowed. To identify family ties you need to go back further. For Sarah, I have attached more details below to help with your search.

1591936843369.png
 
All my fathers family were in the gun trade in London. My grandfather was a stock maker and my grandmother a gun barrel browner. Don't know why they called them 'browners' when all the guns are black. She used to do it in her kitchen having a large boiler in there. My father run away to Birmingham when he was sixteen. Before the second world war he worked at Webley & Scott and then moved to the BSA where he worked during the war. I remember him experimenting in our kitchen to get the best covering for gun parts to prevent rust. I only threw one part away a few months ago that I found in the garage, still as good as ever with not a spot of rust. The shed at home was full of bottles of acid and other chemicals which I had to dispose of when he died. So much skill in all those who worked in the gun trade.
 
All my fathers family were in the gun trade in London. My grandfather was a stock maker and my grandmother a gun barrel browner. Don't know why they called them 'browners' when all the guns are black. She used to do it in her kitchen having a large boiler in there. My father run away to Birmingham when he was sixteen. Before the second world war he worked at Webley & Scott and then moved to the BSA where he worked during the war. I remember him experimenting in our kitchen to get the best covering for gun parts to prevent rust. I only threw one part away a few months ago that I found in the garage, still as good as ever with not a spot of rust. The shed at home was full of bottles of acid and other chemicals which I had to dispose of when he died. So much skill in all those who worked in the gun trade.
[/QUOTE.... THANKS FOR THE POST VERY INTERESTING THANKS.
Damascus brown barrels. 1592414080644.png


Bluing (steel) - Wikipedia

rust Bluing with Simple Homemade Rust Activator t's made by mixing 1) household ammonia (more accurately, ammonium hydroxide (aq)) 2) crumbled charcoal (carbon) and 3) gun bluing (Selenious Acid, Cupric Nitrate, Nitric Acid, Phosphoric Acid and water [MSDS) in equal parts.
  • or just buy a bottle,it is quicker...1592414129550.png
 
Thank for your reply mwOnjm. Very rare see brown barrels. Can you imagine trying to buy all the ingredients for that these days, probably be arrested thinking you was going to blow up Houses of Parliament. Certainly didn't realise you could buy that gun blue, and quite a reasonable price
 
Thank for your reply mwOnjm. Very rare see brown barrels. Can you imagine trying to buy all the ingredients for that these days, probably be arrested thinking you was going to blow up Houses of Parliament. Certainly didn't realise you could buy that gun blue, and quite a reasonable price
ta for reply:grinning:. I use it but its not as good as the real thing, done by a G/smith.A lot of new barrels now are painted black. (not nice at all i think).
 
Nothing beats the original techniques does it. I was just thinking of all the skills involved in various parts of a gun. Cannot realise how much work goes into making a stock for instance, particularly if made to measure. All done for easiest and cheapest these days
 
May, not sure, maybe this should be put in a different thread, but anyone out there involved in any of the old rifle clubs. For a number of years in the 1950's I was a member of the Handsworth Rifle and Pistol club who had an outdoor range on the Handsworth Golf club. Also member of the 3rd Warwicks Club with a 25 yard range behind a pub ( can't remember which one) based in Birmingham city centre. Just thinking how I used to travel there on the bus with my rifle and pistol in a canvas bag and the ammo in my pocket. Those were the days !!!
 
,Not sure, maybe this should be put in a different thread, but anyone out there involved in any of the old rifle clubs. For a number of years in the 1950's I was a member of the Handsworth Rifle and Pistol club who had an outdoor range on the Handsworth Golf club. Also member of the 3rd Warwicks Club with a 25 yard range behind a pub ( can't remember which one) based in Birmingham city centre. Just thinking how I used to travel there on the bus with my rifle and pistol in a canvas bag and the ammo in my pocket. Those were the days !!!
The mods will soon tell us.:worried:........... I was a member of the british leyland (Morris commercial) gun club alum rock..
 
Hi, looking through hubby's scrapbook see until 1970 his dad worked at GKN, where at one time they made screws for BSA rifles during the Slave Trade, how many hundreds of years ago? Reading this hubby said can't exactly call them Gun Makers but did make BSA Motor Bikes and believes the engine designs were copied from German 'war' motor bikes. :)
 
Very much enjoying reading about the history and memories of the gun trade in the city. Here's a few photos of my GG Grandfather John Saunders who had a gun maker business in Anderton Sq, Whittal St. I also tracked down an owner of one of the guns he made in 1916.John Saunders at Ascot Races in1870.jpgJohn Saunders Business Letterhead.JPGSaunders Gun and message from owner in 2014 .PNG
 
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