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Gun Factories / Gun Quarter - Staff Lists ??

changinman1

changinman1

master brummie
My paternal grandfathers were gunmakers in the city from 1860 to 1900 ish and lived around Weaman st and Bagot street / Miles street /Ormond street/ Fleet Street (yes they did live in a lot of places haha ) but that is as far as I have got , their job titles from certificates of marriage and death etc are Gun Finisher / gun maker /metal roller , what id love to know is if there are any records of employment at any gunmaking workshops factories that may list their names . There were two George Field and one Joseph Field in my time line with joseph being the son of george and then joseph named his son george too. Id really appreciate any help possible please.
 
changinman1 said:
My paternal grandfathers were gunmakers in the city from 1860 to 1900 ish and lived around Weaman st and Bagot street / Miles street /Ormond street/ Fleet Street (yes they did live in a lot of places haha ) but that is as far as I have got , their job titles from certificates of marriage and death etc are Gun Finisher / gun maker /metal roller , what id love to know is if there are any records of employment at any gunmaking workshops factories that may list their names . There were two George Field and one Joseph Field in my time line with joseph being the son of george and then joseph named his son george too. Id really appreciate any help possible please.
Click to expand...

wish i could help ..as you know the gun trade was booming between the years you are interested in and there would have been many gun factories around...of course if you knew the names of where your rellies worked a trip to the library may prove useful to see if any company records still exist...i was lucky with my grandad..i knew he worked for chances glass in the 20s and dudley had the companies employment records with my grandads name written down...unless someone else can help i fear you could be looking for a needle in a haystack...all the best

lyn
 
I tend to agree with you Lyn. There were lots of small gun workshops. Lots of them did not make complete guns, they specialised in making key parts, lock, stock and barrel.

I would imagine that a lot of these small workshops also changed hands or ownership. So may have been absorbed into bigger outfits.

I am also wondering if these small workshops operated on casual labour, therefore record maybe thin on the ground.
 
Mort,

Not sure on the casual labour, but many of them were just self-emplyed single workers. Weaman Street was a hive of small workshops, all rented, and I have so pics somewhere - will see if I can dig them out. Several in my family worked in that way.

Maurice :cool:
 
Generally called, in some areas, as cottage industries. Some very famous names are still on that basis, I understand, with a select few empowered to use the name. One such is the French Sabatier knives.
 
Janice,

I haven't yet been able to locate the pictures I was looking for, but they are similar to the bottom two pictures and description on this page of workshops at the back of St Mary's Row:-
http://mappingbirmingham.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-gun-quarter.html

And you are correct, each self-employed man just making hundreds of one part of the action, or just making gun stocks, as several of my LONGMOREs did. And not confined to Birmingham as I have several of them doing the same work in Darlaston in the 18th century. I rather doubt if they kept much in the way of paperwork, and time spent doing anything like that was time not making money!

Maurice :cool:
 
sospiri said:
Janice,

I haven't yet been able to locate the pictures I was looking for, but they are similar to the bottom two pictures and description on this page of workshops at the back of St Mary's Row:-
http://mappingbirmingham.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-gun-quarter.html

And you are correct, each self-employed man just making hundreds of one part of the action, or just making gun stocks, as several of my LONGMOREs did. And not confined to Birmingham as I have several of them doing the same work in Darlaston in the 18th century. I rather doubt if they kept much in the way of paperwork, and time spent doing anything like that was time not making money!

Maurice :cool:
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I remember when I was about 10 going with my uncle who had a farm close to Water Orton to look at his shot gun being made down Steelhouse Lane. We went down an alley back at least two houses into a dimly lit building where craftsman were doing their work. I remember the men wearing leather aprons and my uncle saying that there were only a few places left (early fifties). And that the craftsmen would go from one gun make to another doing there work all as independent workers. It seemed that only a couple of years later that whole area was being taken down
 
I worked in the gun trade in 1960 as a part time "runner" taking various parts to various workshops and remember most of the people specializing in one form or other of gun making were self employed. The workshop I went to every day was run by a barrel maker by the name of Phil Turner. He only worked from 4pm to 7pm and his main job was in Bracebridge St.
 
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Sorry I can't help with your request re employees but by coincidence My GGM's father married a Hannah Field in 1858. Her Father was Thomas Field, Gun Maker. I assume that before marrying she would have lived with him in Brearley Street. There was also a gun and pistol factory around the corner in Summer Lane (Probably Benltley and Playfair).

1590820932356.png
The book, Birmingham's Industrial Heritage 1900-2000 contains an excellent section on gun making in Birmingham and lists the main employers which gave business to the smaller workshops.
 
mbenne said:
Sorry I can't help with your request re employees but by coincidence My GGM's father married a Hannah Field in 1858. Her Father was Thomas Field, Gun Maker. I assume that before marrying she would have lived with him in Brearley Street. There was also a gun and pistol factory around the corner in Summer Lane (Probably Benltley and Playfair).

View attachment 145361
The book, Birmingham's Industrial Heritage 1900-2000 contains an excellent section on gun making in Birmingham and lists the main employers which gave business to the smaller workshops.
Click to expand...
 
Oh wow hannah field , can you possibly share your tree with me somehow i need to compare them , they might be related
 
mbenne said:
Sorry I can't help with your request re employees but by coincidence My GGM's father married a Hannah Field in 1858. Her Father was Thomas Field, Gun Maker. I assume that before marrying she would have lived with him in Brearley Street. There was also a gun and pistol factory around the corner in Summer Lane (Probably Benltley and Playfair).

View attachment 145361
The book, Birmingham's Industrial Heritage 1900-2000 contains an excellent section on gun making in Birmingham and lists the main employers which gave business to the smaller workshops.
Click to expand...
 
Hi changinman1

I thought I had more on my GGMs family but I dont. I only recently started going back from my GGMs line a few weeks ago. I looked on Family Search this morning for Hannah's family but without any success - maybe someone on BHF can help. All I can tell you is what appears on the Marriage certificate:

20th June 1858
Alfred Thomas - Age 24 - residing at 86 Great Russel St - occ Button tool maker - Father: Edward Thomas - Brass Founder
Hannah Field - Age 22 - residing at 16 Brealey St - Father:Thomas Field - Gun Maker

Witnesses:Richard Henry Thomas and Harriet Eliza Thomas

They have 4 children - Annie (my GGM) , Rosa, Ada and Julia

At Some point they are all residing at 140 Brearley Street but as to when they moved here I cant tell but they are both at this address between 1881 and 1901. In 1871 they were in Duddeston district but I dont have the address.

Alfred and Hannah were buried in a family grave at Warstone along with my GGMs sister, Rosa and 2 of my GGMs children Rose and Frederick
 
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Morturn said:
I tend to agree with you Lyn. There were lots of small gun workshops. Lots of them did not make complete guns, they specialised in making key parts, lock, stock and barrel.

I would imagine that a lot of these small workshops also changed hands or ownership. So may have been absorbed into bigger outfits.

I am also wondering if these small workshops operated on casual labour, therefore record maybe thin on the ground.
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I use a couple of smiths in price st.where i go in the workshop.its fascinating,all the old tools.some hand made. the gun quarter was a hive of activity once.
Gun Quarter - Wikipedia

The Gun Quarter - History of Birmingham Places A to Y
William Powell's Gunmakers Shop, Carrs Lane
 
mbenne said:
Hi changinman1

I thought I had more on my GGMs family but I dont. I only recently started going back from my GGMs line a few weeks ago. I looked on Family Search this morning for Hannah's family but without any success - maybe someone on BHF can help. All I can tell you is what appears on the Marriage certificate:

20th June 1858
Alfred Thomas - Age 24 - residing at 86 Great Russel St - occ Button tool maker - Father: Edward Thomas - Brass Founder
Hannah Field - Age 22 - residing at 16 Brealey St - Father:Thomas Field - Gun Maker

Witnesses:Richard Henry Thomas and Harriet Eliza Thomas

They have 4 children - Annie (my GGM) , Rosa, Ada and Julia

At Some point they are all residing at 140 Brearley Street but as to when they moved here I cant tell but they are both at this address between 1881 and 1901. In 1871 they were in Duddeston district but I dont have the address.

Alfred and Hannah were buried in a family grave at Warstone along with my GGMs sister, Rosa and 2 of my GGMs children Rose and Frederick

The reason I found your post coincidental is that in the last couple of weeks I've located all of my GGMs children from 2 previous marriages via BHF, including my GFs half brother Norman Smith, his wife and two children. The children were placed in a Catholic Childrens home after he died in 1932 and his wife was placed in an asylum in the same year - our family having been told they were sent to Canada, all attempts, by my GGMs brother in law to locate them and put them into the family business came to an end !

The first link includes your relative Hannah Thomas (nee Field) who would have been their GM - assuming she is related to your family line?

Usher and smith

I'm trying to decipher an address in Lozells from an Army pension record for my GF's step brother. I can read most of it except for the street name. Maybe I'm losing the ability to read anything other than typed text!
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk

The second thread was created almost 11 years ago and led me to contact a distant relative of my GFs half brother

Winson Green / All Saints Asylum

I wonder if anyone can help me. I found this forum whilst searching for information about All Saints Asylum. My Great Aunt went to the asylum in c1932 and died there in 1971. It has taken me a while to find her death certificate as she was registered with the wrong middle name, an approximate...
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk

The threads may not be of interest to you as they are "branching off" from your original request but I wanted to show how even the smallest pieces of info and longshots, with help from BHF members, can produce results

Let us know how you get on!
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Hi ...I don't know if we are related but such close co-incidences , my fields lived in brearley st at certain times and 4 back 80 great Russell street for a long time too .....mmmm wonder if they knew each other
 
I'm sure there is a connection somewhere but would need to check census records around 1861 but only have access via FamilySearch and this doesn't bring up much!!

As you've probably gathered gun making was somewhat of a "cottage industry" but a few years back I created a 1891 census database for Warwickshire. I ran a few queries and came up with the following totals for gun related jobs for the Birmingham area (I'd do a breakdown by gun component but the census occupations would have to be standardised and would take a few hours! :

Gun manufacturing: 5023
Ammunition: 1068

With regard to your area of interest:

People with the surname Field : 746
People with surname Armfield : 42

People with surname Field and Armfield with gun or munnitions related job titles (I included one Gothic engraver as I thought this could be related)
1591871570799.png
 
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mbenne said:
I'm sure there is a connection somewhere but would need to check census records around 1861 but only have access via FamilySearch and this doesn't bring up much!!

As you've probably gathered gun making was somewhat of a "cottage industry" but a few years back I created a 1891 census database for Warwickshire. I ran a few queries and came up with the following totals for gun related jobs for the Birmingham area (I'd do a breakdown by gun component but the census occupations would have to be standardised and would take a few hours! :

Gun manufacturing: 3240
Ammunition: 672

With regard to your area of interest:

People with the surname Field : 746
People with surname Armfield : 42

People with surname Field and Armfield with gun or munnitions related job titles (I included one Gothic engraver as I thought this could be related)
View attachment 145703
Click to expand...
mebenne, this is really great information! Also so very revealing. The percentage of people employed in the gun trade clearly shows the industry concentration at that time. If you were to add to that the other support folks and families it must have a huge impact on Birmingham.

Thank you for lifting the curtain so to speak, being such a long way away its wonderful insight. Living in the southern US there is a lot of history about the American Civil War, what I have noticed that many of the guns and swords used by both sides were made in Birmingham.

Thank you!
 
David Williams book "The Birmingham gun Trade" states that, during the civil war, 733,403 guns were supplied by Birmingham to America as opposed to 344,802 from London
 
mikejee said:
David Williams book "The Birmingham gun Trade" states that, during the civil war, 733,403 guns were supplied by Birmingham to America as opposed to 344,802 from London
Click to expand...
wow ....tiwice that of London and thats probably why my paternal grandfathers moved up from London then for the jobs up here ?!?!?
 
mbenne said:
I'm sure there is a connection somewhere but would need to check census records around 1861 but only have access via FamilySearch and this doesn't bring up much!!

As you've probably gathered gun making was somewhat of a "cottage industry" but a few years back I created a 1891 census database for Warwickshire. I ran a few queries and came up with the following totals for gun related jobs for the Birmingham area (I'd do a breakdown by gun component but the census occupations would have to be standardised and would take a few hours! :

Gun manufacturing: 3240
Ammunition: 672

With regard to your area of interest:

People with the surname Field : 746
People with surname Armfield : 42

People with surname Field and Armfield with gun or munnitions related job titles (I included one Gothic engraver as I thought this could be related)
View attachment 145703
Click to expand...
so are these the addresses of their employers ??

so ...I can say that definitely related to me are ....
Sarah Field (married to Joseph Field my gt gt paternal GF
The other Fields I would need more data on to make a judgement call
How do you link them to me or did you just pull out some random Fields related to the GQ

Thankyou so much , any info that you can get me will help unlock my past
 
changinman1 said:
so are these the addresses of their employers ??

so ...I can say that definitely related to me are ....
Sarah Field (married to Joseph Field my gt gt paternal GF
The other Fields I would need more data on to make a judgement call
How do you link them to me or did you just pull out some random Fields related to the GQ

Thankyou so much , any info that you can get me will help unlock my past
Click to expand...
Sorry can't answer that. All I know is that my GGF's wife's family was named Field and lived in Brearley Street in 1858. I was hoping you had info on your side to connect the families. What I've done is to identify all the "Fields" still working in the gun trade over thirty years later, in 1891, in the hope that you can make an association.
As the info is based on census data the given address would be their home address which may or may not be their place of work. As for the link between Sarah and Joseph Field I can't say as the 91 census shows that she is widowed. To identify family ties you need to go back further. For Sarah, I have attached more details below to help with your search.

1591936843369.png
 
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