Great Lister Street and surrounding streets.

[shavedfish49]

Some time ago I spent several hours at the Central Library copying the 1889 map of Birmingham onto A3 sheets. Areas covered were Gosta Green, Great Lister Street and surrounding streets and east to Alum Rock Road.
It's helped me with my genealogy finding correct place names like Lister Square not Leicester Square and Oliver Street not Olive Street!
Also, those little places that are too small to show clearly on regular maps e.g. Little Francis Street. Similarly most Courts are shown in correct location which helps no end with any long streets. Also those named courts which can confuse the address on censuses.
If anyone thinks any of this may be of help to them I'll gladly check on any of your questions either in this forum if you think it'll help others or PM me.

 

[harley]

weston street nechells.

anyone out there have one of weston street would be lovely to see my old street again .thanks to all harley.

 

[Rupert]

Map of it.

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...d=10095&ox=325&oy=1597&zm=1&czm=1&x=152&y=163

 

[harley]

weston street

thanks rupert ,great to see the old lay out again ,still love to see any old photos though . thanks rupert . harley.

 

[ward ancesters]

my great grand father lived at 112 great lister st they still lived there up until i can find on census records 1901 could be longer wanting to know if these houses still stands there name was wardeace:

 

[Phil]

ward ancesters

The is very little of Great Lister St left in its original form, most of it went in the mid 60's slum clearances. It was situated between Godwin Street and Little Francis St. This end of Great Lister St was one of the first area's to go.

The 1903 and 1913 copies of Kelly's both list 112 Great Lister St as a Milliners owned by Mrs Christina Ward.

The next copy of Kelly's I have is 1937 by then it is listed as a Costumier owned by Mrs Doris Ashmore.

Perhaps someone else can help you between 1913 and 1937.

Phil

 

[Rupert]

Here's an 1890 map of the area mentioned above showing Godwin Street and Little Francis Street intersecting with Great Lister Street (the one with the tram lines) The two streets intersecting with Great Lister Street and running up diagonally are Cromwell Street and Schofield. Cromwell can be found on Google Earth. If the above is correct then 112 would have been just East of the curve of what is now Nechells Parkway. Great Lister Street was a familiar place to me in the old days but as stated, there is only a stub left now and probably not much that is recognizable. Hope this is of help and there are photos on this web somewhere. Type Great Lister Street in the search box.

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...=10094&ox=4671&oy=2112&zm=1&czm=1&x=361&y=363

Another ref. https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10613&highlight=Great+Lister+Street&page=9

 

[mikejee]

The area has changed so much that its difficult to tell . especially as they cut ends off streets, but I think I about agree with Rupert. Checking through the directories 112 was definitely the house marked in red, three doors away from the Lister Tavern

Mike

 

[Phil]

Somewhere on this site is a copy of this photo that I can no longer find, I know because this is a copy of it.

The point is on the photo to the left of the propped up shops you can see a tarmac area. I have worked out that this is the remains of the end of Little Francis St.

If that is so one of the two shops has all the chance in the word of being No 112. If is idea is too fanciful, then it is definitely the area that No 112 would have been.

Phil

 

[Rupert]

If Mikejee is correct in his research, then I think you are too far east PMC. Looking at the 1890 map Little Francis Street meets Gt Lister almost at the same place as Cromwell St. So that on Google if you project the remains of Cromwell down and GT Lister across they meet right on the curve in Nechells Pkwy. Then looking at that apartment building it is further away from this point than in the picture. I dont think that Little Francis Grove is in the same location as the original street judjing by the 1890 map. Anyway it's only a matter of yards. Wish I could remember how to do an overlay.

 

[mikejee]

I've got a slightly better copy of photo (attached, can't remember where I got it). but for some reason its marked Bloomsbury St (Ive also got the same the photo as you with Gt lister st on ). You know the area though Phil so I'm sure your attribution is correct. The resolution of this copy shows shops are clearly little corner shops, but the last time I can find No 112 listed in Kellys, its in 1950 as J & M Terry , hairdressers. Could have altered its use though I suppose
Mike

 

[GER22VAN]

If there is a copy of Kelly's , could someone post " Atkins " as I believe it is the shop in the photograph with the lady in the doorway.

 

[mikejee]

126 Gt Lister st, Albert Atkins, wholesale confectioner, in 1950 Kellys, Also same in 1921 kellys. So /not far away, just 11 doors the other side of Little Francis St

 

[Phil]

Rupert

I lived in Francis St, which turned into Little Francis St between Lupin St and Great Lister St. It met Great Lister St opposite Scholefield St.

If you look at the map I have posted you will see this, in my opinion the shops were at the position I have marked 1 in red and the block of flats at the position I have marked 2 in red. This explains why mikejee's photo is titled Bloomsbury St. because at the time of the photo there was no Little Francis St.

The new Little Francis Grove was put on a slightly different location to the original. I used to drink in the Tom Thumb on the corner.

Phil

 

[GER22VAN]

Mickjee. Thank you for your post. It was my favorite sweet shop way back in the late 1940's. My gran took me there lots of times and Trouch was my favorite sweet.
Phil. I always accepted that photograph as Great Lister Street and not Bloomsbury Street

 

[Phil]

Ernie

Anything is possible, but I just cant see where you would be in Bloomsbury St to get that view of the flats.

I'll have to ponder on it some more, but I think I will still come up with the same result. I think its another one of those situations where we will never know real truth. Another curse of growing old, poor memory.

Phil

 

[Rupert]

PMC, The map that you have posted is not an ordnance survey map or taken from one so that it is hard to accept it as being accurate. Whereas the survey map could be overlayed on the Google aerial photo's. Never the less, if you have positive personal knowledge, then that would be prime. Or maybe the street names changed. In any case the Survey map definately shows Little Francis Street meeting GT. Lister street at the junction with Cromwell Street; just a little offset.

I wrote the above and have to say that you are right after looking at it again. Ignore what I have written I will have to get new specs.
Had to page up on the computer map to read the street name and confused Cromwell with Schofield.

 

[GER22VAN]

Phil. To me your map is as true as it can be.

 

[Rupert]

PMC, I think you are right on the spot and those shops could well be the place. Well done. Would that have been the even numbering side of the street.

 

[Phil]

Rupert,

As I say anything is possible, and I am only quoting from my own memory. I admit that my memory is not infallible and it has been getting on for fifty years. One thing I do seem to remember that if I walked down Willis St till I met Great Lister St opposite me would be Cromwell St. On the right of me would be St Mathews Church and if I turned that way and walked down Great Lister St I would pass Godwin St and the next street I would come to would be Little Francis St, That doesn't seem to make it all that close to Cromwell St to me.

Phil

 

[Phil]

PMC, I think you are right on the spot and those shops could well be the place. Well done. Would that have been the even numbering side of the street.

Rupert

The numbers were sequential and not odd on one side and even on the other.

Phil

 

[GER22VAN]

Phil. I can follow with you and we would not put a foot wrong.

 

[ward ancesters]

wow overwhemed

 

[Rupert]

This shows the run of old Great Lister, Cromwell and Scholefield.
The buildings in yellow are the public house on the corner of Little Francis and the shop spoken about. Rupert and Cromwell line up with the modern run and St Mathews is shown in place. You will see that Oliver (old) is in line with what remains of it and off to the left and out of the picture is the remaining stub of Gt. Lister. I once pushed a handcart with my dad loaded with wood all the way from Lister Street, along Gt. Lister and up Alum Rock. It would have been in the late 40s and we would probably have passed most of the old buildings. I don’t think we could do the same trip on Nechells Pkway today. Actually I think that the picture showing the old propped up shops is a wonderful view into the past showing what remained at that time in the transition to today. Very poignant indeed. I had seen it on here before but had not given it much thought until now.

 

[Alberta]

My husbands grandmother,May Shelley,married from 253 Gt Lister Street in 1915.

 

[padget]

Re: weston street nechells.

ro you remember a hodson family who livid there cheers

 

[Rita Hawkins]

Does anyone know where no 2 court, gt Lister st might have been. My grandmother, Rose Breedon (nee Brookes), lived there around 1900

 

[mikejee]

Rita
Court 2 is shown in red on the map below.

 

[Rita Hawkins]

thank you. I've always wondered where it was. I'm visiting the NT block of Back to backs on Friday. Were they anything like the courts?

 

[Phil]

Hi Rita

Take a look at these images of back terraces in the area quite close to Great Lister Street, in fact the first one is a terrace off Great Lister Street. It might be a little unfair of me to say as I have only seen images of the back to backs on Inge Street but it's my opinion that the restored property is a little too antiseptic and sanitised to demonstrate the reality of back to back living. Compare what you see Friday with the reality of what you see in these images. These photos might show early images, but believe me I can vouch from personal experience that things were no better when these properties were demolished in the late fifties and early sixties.