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Great Grandmother Ellen Field nee Ray/Reay

changinman1

changinman1

master brummie
Hi I’m hoping that someone has some info on my gt grandma name as above , I have her death certificate which states she’s died on 12th July 1932 aged 67, widow to my gt grand dad George William Field but I cannot find any birth certificate what so ever for her , it’s a complete mystery , hopefully someone will be able to help me piece together my family tree, thanks very much
 
I have just done a search on GRO for girls born surname Ray and Mother's maiden name Houghton - I found a Caroline who died aged 5, Jane, but I cannot find any other girls. I began to wonder if she was adopted - until 1926 this was often done unofficially. So it can be hard to trace. I wondered if William or Caroline had a sibling who might have died soon after having Ellen? They might then have taken her in.
 
Ah, the name REAY - but is it really RAY? My maternal great grandfather James LONGMORE married Mary REAY at Edgbaston in 1831, but all the children that were born after the start of civil registration in 1837 have different spellings of their mother's maiden names on their birth certificates - READ, REED, REID, etc., making it almost impossible to go further back on that line. Since many were illiterate at that time, we can't be certain what the real surname was.

Maurice :)
 
Lyn - it's on Ancestry
Just gives her father as William. That is who she is on the census with. Mother Caroline and I found a marriage of William Ray and Caroline Houghton.
 

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thanks jan thats what i was after...just to see if ellen was down as ray or reay...i will see what i can find out assuming she was born brum also noted she could not write her name

lyn
 
jan is that ellen on the 1881 census..with brother alfred and henry ..mother caroline...looking at the marr cert for her would you say her dad williams occ is spur maker because on the 1881 i think it says william ray occ something sadler

lyn
 
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I thought it was them - yes. Spur maker on marriage cert and I thought 1881 says "spur maker ...saddler" - not sure but looks like field!!
On 1871 Ellen is down as Nelly and William is a spur rowel maker
 
No I can't either - I've found the following Ray/Houghton births and one baptism at St Pauls for Daughter Elizabeth in August 1853.

Born 13 Aug 1853, bapt 29 Aug 1853 St Pauls Birmingham - Elizabeth daughter of William & Caroline RAY, Warstone Lane, Spur Maker.

RAY, JANE mmn HOUGHTON GRO Reference: 1856 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 37

RAY, WILLIAM mmn HOUGHTON GRO Reference: 1858 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 179

RAY, GEORGE WILLIAM mmn HOUGHTON GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 180

RAY, CAROLINE mmn HOUGHTON GRO Reference: 1861 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 186

RAY, THOMAS mmn HOUGHTON GRO Reference: 1863 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 190

RAY, ALFRED mmn HOUGHTON GRO Reference: 1869 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 124

RAY, HENRY mmn HOUGHTON GRO Reference: 1871 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 125
 
thats what i thought jan unless of course unless of course she was williams second wife who was also a caroline
 
thanks bewdley...births pretty much same time apart until we come to a gap of 6 years between 63 to 69..nothing for 66..could it be possible that ellen was not registered the reason i ask that is i would have thought that already having 5 children it may have been very hard to take on someone elses child...especially in those days...quite a mystery

lyn
 
pjmburns said:
I have just done a search on GRO for girls born surname Ray and Mother's maiden name Houghton - I found a Caroline who died aged 5, Jane, but I cannot find any other girls. I began to wonder if she was adopted - until 1926 this was often done unofficially. So it can be hard to trace. I wondered if William or Caroline had a sibling who might have died soon after having Ellen? They might then have taken her in.
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Hi does this help B8B04C6B-7A77-4265-8344-61EF8843287A.jpeg
 
I’m not too good at this , someone in the family said that she came from money and her family disowned her when she married my gt grandad mmm
Astoness said:
thanks jan thats what i was after...just to see if ellen was down as ray or reay...i will see what i can find out assuming she was born brum also noted she could not write her name
Click to expand...
 
Astoness said:
thanks bewdley...births pretty much same time apart until we come to a gap of 6 years between 63 to 69..nothing for 66..could it be possible that ellen was not registered the reason i ask that is i would have thought that already having 5 children it may have been very hard to take on someone elses child...especially in those days...quite a mystery

lyn
Click to expand...
Possibly though they registered their other children and several of their children aren't with them on the census so may have died in childhood; children in 1861 were Jane, William and George and 1871 Alfred and Ellen. They could have took her in and adopted her.
 
yes that is possible bewdley....our dads mom was taken in by a friend and his wife in 1908 aged just a few months old after her parents died just a day apart and for over a year i could not find her on the 1911 then i remembered that dad had told me the names of the people who had taken her in so i put in their names and up she popped but as in so many cases not under her real surname but under her adoptive parents name

lyn
 
That happened in my mum's family too and my "cousin" doesn't know to this day that her sister was her mum!

I have found deaths for Elizabeth aged 1, Caroline aged 5 and Thomas aged 3. I wonder what happened to the other children?

I'm going to log off now as have to collect 2 of my grandsons in the morning from Worcester so need to be awake for them.
 
its amazing how things like that happen...very sad losing 3 children and so young but again common back then...know what its like being a granny now lol..will take a look at the other children tomorrow but i found janes marriage in 1873 at st philips

lyn
 
5A9975F2-DC7E-4D0E-8A56-0540D0EF81AD.jpegThanks appreciate any help you can give me, pa I thought that Ellen and her husband my gt grandad George were the same age according to their death certs they were both 67 when they died and George died in December 1931and Ellen in July 1932 and both registrars being 67, their marriage certificate says George was 25 and Elen was 24 when they wed on June 30 1890 and were both living in bagot street Birmingham and her dad was down as William Ray who was a spur maker 5A9975F2-DC7E-4D0E-8A56-0540D0EF81AD.jpeg
 
yes changinman we have already got their marriage cert from ancestry and ellen and george were more or less the same age..have you found a problem??

lyn
 
bewdley said:
Possibly though they registered their other children and several of their children aren't with them on the census so may have died in childhood; children in 1861 were Jane, William and George and 1871 Alfred and Ellen. They could have took her in and adopted her.
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Hi what makes you think she was adopted ? , sorry for being thick
 
There is no birth record. As they registered their other children it is likely her birth was with a different surname. This suggests she was adopted but in those days this was often informal so no records exist.
 
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