Grammar schools and comprehensives in Birmingham in the 50s and 60s.

[Richard Dye]

I don't think an education system was ever changed to suit the feelings of the children! The children already knew their 'place' through streaming in the Junior School and the position in class that was written on each annual report.

The Comprehensive system was and is political dogma, right or wrong. Having said that it worries me that advocates of the system always demanded that only comprehensives be allowed otherwise it wouldn't function properly. Do that and there is nothing to compare it with.

I suspect that most comprehensives were/are just 'super-schools' cloaking the grammar and secondary modern streams within!

It has been claimed that comprehensives offer a wider choice of subject. I can't comment. All I know is that my nephews, products of the comprehensive system, left with passes in a mish-mash of subjects that didn't fit them for any career or path to further education, something that would have never been allowed by a grammar school.

Both nephews did eventually get places at university but only by doing intermediate studies with the likes of the Open University.

Spargone, when I look back at my own schooling, did not pass the 11 plus and felt somewhat in the dumper. Started in 1d, 2c, 3b, 4a, 5a,6a with distinction in math and science. Get the picture! I could have been channeled. Our son who is our oldest was the same way. He was always in the shadow (academically) of his little sister. Got into university and could not find his way for two years and then out of knowhere, he’s on the deans list gets a place at graduate school with an assistantship and graduated first in his class in International business and human resource management. Our daughter had her choice of medical school or law school and became a lawyer.
My wife and I held our breath with our son, we never knew where he was academically until he was 19 or 20. The point of this that how does ANYONE know what peoples skills are at aged 11? My wife is a retired educator with many awards and the smart one in our family was concerned. So again how does someone who does not even know a person other than a name have the ability to decide a life path. I’m not saying this is easy but we owe it to our future generations!
My apologies for getting a little tangential!

 

[Diane1947]

The question asked is over 10 years old, and I would say academically not going to either Grammar or Comprehensive school, but a Secondary Modern school leaving with zero qualifications of any sort did impact me for many years in my career .
Education was not the only reason for me leaving at 15 the need to bring a wage into the home was made clear when the school wanted me to stay on for a extra year, and Mum would not entertain it.
The irony of that situation Mum around 1917/1918 passed for Grammar School or the equivalent at that time, but coming from a family of 10 they could not afford to send her. So you would think having the chance for me to have that extra year she would have encouraged it.

I think if your academic or not we all have something to offer in life, and the danger to my way of thinking is that often it comes over only those that are academically have something to offer.

It’s evident with the skill shortage today that we have not trained those that are more practical minded than academic.
I have 2 sons , the oldest left school with 4 good GCE’s he had no interest in staying on, no interest in College, went into a office hated it.
Started driving for West Midland, and the majority of his working life has been driving, and some management.He has ever driving licence going except for a motorbike, and worked permanently throughout lockdown HGV driver on nights. Which he appeared to love although he has now moved again to management.

The youngest is a teacher, always loved learning, 6th form, university, gap year in the USA.

Daughter college, trained chef, but went into sales, could sell you anything even if you don’t want it. Started her online business in lockdown doing well.

My point being we are all different, and having worked for years in the NHS before retiring, and without a doubt you need everyone in that service to deliver the best for patients. The NHS has brilliant people academically, and you have people that have no qualifications, but they all need each other in someway.

 

[Spargone]

Started in 1d, 2c, 3b, 4a, 5a,6a with distinction in math and science. Get the picture!

Are we to assume that 'd' stream is lower ability than 'a' stream? Won't the children know that too? Grammar and Seconday Modern in one school? Children did change streams in grammar schools and children did arrive from other schools so the path wasn't fixed under the older systems.

Changing streams seems easy at first but surely a 'late developing' child has a lot to catch up?

If children lean at different speeds and the teaching is paced to suit then it follows that they will end up at different places unless the slow learners are made to stay at school longer. (Actually we had a degree of that at grammar school as some skipped Year 4). I doubt if any system can be best for all children. The comprehensive system claims that it can do better than others but insists that no other system exists to hide its failings.

There are so many factors, probably most not under our own control, that determine our path through life. We need people who are 'smart' and people who are 'plodders', the smart ones don't have the staying power and the plodders don't have the ideas.

 

[Richard Dye]

The question asked is over 10 years old, and I would say academically not going to either Grammar or Comprehensive school, but a Secondary Modern school leaving with zero qualifications of any sort did impact me for many years in my career .
Education was not the only reason for me leaving at 15 the need to bring a wage into the home was made clear when the school wanted me to stay on for a extra year, and Mum would not entertain it.
The irony of that situation Mum around 1917/1918 passed for Grammar School or the equivalent at that time, but coming from a family of 10 they could not afford to send her. So you would think having the chance for me to have that extra year she would have encouraged it.

I think if your academic or not we all have something to offer in life, and the danger to my way of thinking is that often it comes over only those that are academically have something to offer.

It’s evident with the skill shortage today that we have not trained those that are more practical minded than academic.
I have 2 sons , the oldest left school with 4 good GCE’s he had no interest in staying on, no interest in College, went into a office hated it.
Started driving for West Midland, and the majority of his working life has been driving, and some management.He has ever driving licence going except for a motorbike, and worked permanently throughout lockdown HGV driver on nights. Which he appeared to love although he has now moved again to management.

The youngest is a teacher, always loved learning, 6th form, university, gap year in the USA.

Daughter college, trained chef, but went into sales, could sell you anything even if you don’t want it. Started her online business in lockdown doing well.

My point being we are all different, and having worked for years in the NHS before retiring, and without a doubt you need everyone in that service to deliver the best for patients. The NHS has brilliant people academically, and you have people that have no qualifications, but they all need each other in someway.

Diane your point is well taken we are all different and as our life passes so do our needs and wants. As I said in an earlier post we never know until we get there!

 

[Richard Dye]

Are we to assume that 'd' stream is lower ability than 'a' stream? Won't the children know that too? Grammar and Seconday Modern in one school? Children did change streams in grammar schools and children did arrive from other schools so the path wasn't fixed under the older systems.

Changing streams seems easy at first but surely a 'late developing' child has a lot to catch up?

If children lean at different speeds and the teaching is paced to suit then it follows that they will end up at different places unless the slow learners are made to stay at school longer. (Actually we had a degree of that at grammar school as some skipped Year 4). I doubt if any system can be best for all children. The comprehensive system claims that it can do better than others but insists that no other system exists to hide its failings.

There are so many factors, probably most not under our own control, that determine our path through life. We need people who are 'smart' and people who are 'plodders', the smart ones don't have the staying power and the plodders don't have the ideas.

My point exactly! We are in violent agreement. But working towards a future can be in our control if we are willing to work.

 

[pjmburns]

It has been claimed that comprehensives offer a wider choice of subject.

I think that is mainly down to the size of the schools. When you have 1000+ pupils you can afford to have more subjects offered. You are likely to get enough pupils opting for the subject to be able to run it. In a grammar of limited numbers that proved more difficult.
My grammar in the 60s was a private school where the local council paid for so many places. The lucky "passes" were in one stream and others in a second stream - so an intake of 60 per year. The comprehensive I taught in had an intake of around 240 a year.

 

[Eric Gibson]

My daughter's school had a thousand or so pupils, the problem was that the teachers didn't know where they were or who should be in their class and truancy was rife.

 

[Tinpot]

Time to think outside that old box called school. The possibilities are endless for learning these days. Every child and adult could have their individual learning plan adapted over life. We all use the internet to learn. Instead of schools we could have community education centres for all ages.

 

[trevor bow]

Another perspective on how uniform was paid for.

Dad had a reasonably well paid job but mum always worked. She believed she should be able to contribute to the home and or provide her own spending money. She saved via the Provident to get clothing for us. When it came to me and my brother going to Grammar schools, she used the Provident plus anything she could squeeze from my Dad to pay for it. Ordinarily he wouldn’t have contributed but given his absolute and top priority for us of getting a good education he paid for the large items like blazer, coats etc. There was however no way he’d have contributed towards sports equipment or craft/practical items. So really it was all down to my mum that we were able to take up Grammar places.

Viv.

My mother did the same to pay for my uniform and sports gear when I passed my II+ in the fifties. A 'Provi' Cheque would be issued and a collector would come to the door every Friday night with mom paying for the cheque in instalments, so much a week. Most clothes shops and outfitters accepted them. The amount borrowed and the time agreed to pay the debt, dictated how much was paid each week. It wasn't until years later when I had grown up, that I calculated the rate of interest she had been paying for the various 'cheques' she took out. The rates were astronomical - talk about loan sharks.

 

[Richard Dye]

Time to think outside that old box called school. The possibilities are endless for learning these days. Every child and adult could have their individual learning plan adapted over life. We all use the internet to learn. Instead of schools we could have community education centres for all ages.

Tinpot, I concur with thinking out of the box, but this goes to both the student and teachers. Personally I struggled early on because in primary school I was not taught how to study. Yes I was a slow learner and did not pass the 11 plus.
Education is far more than looking at a screen. It might get to that point but we are not there yet. The virtual learning during the pandemic has been far from an overwhelming success. Yes, think out of the box with our eyes wide open and remember the payout is in results not effort. Count me in!

 

[mikejee]

My mother did the same to pay for my uniform and sports gear when I passed my II+ in the fifties. A 'Provi' Cheque would be issued and a collector would come to the door every Friday night with mom paying for the cheque in instalments, so much a week. Most clothes shops and outfitters accepted them. The amount borrowed and the time agreed to pay the debt, dictated how much was paid each week. It wasn't until years later when I had grown up, that I calculated the rate of interest she had been paying for the various 'cheques' she took out. The rates were astronomical - talk about loan sharks.

And the firm were still doing it up to a few years ago

 

[Morturn]

And the firm were still doing it up to a few years ago

Indeed with interst rates of over 80%

 

[Eric Gibson]

I recall the Provident cheques, my mother used them to buy clothes for us four boys from Foster Brothers, she used to get a cheque for £20 and pay back a pound a week for twenty one weeks.
I don't know how that works out as a percentage but at the time is was welcome.
I think they're still in business here although maybe taken over by one of the bigger boys, don't do loans any more.
https://www.providentpersonalcredit.com

 

[Morturn]

Provident loans were being offered at 1,557% interests, yikes!

It now looks like they are no longer doing loans and there is also an ongoing legal claim under the grounds that their loan was unaffordable as a result of the failure of Provident to correctly check creditworthiness nor the suitability of their loans.

 

[Brumrocks]

When I was eight, my family moved from Ladywood to Northfield and I went to Trescott Junior School. I remember being shifted around a bit at first as they tried to get me in the right class. Me and my best friend ended up in year 6 for two years. We both passed the eleven-plus and both went to Bournville Grammar Tech For Girls. I come from a big family - six girls, five boys. The sister just above me was already at Bournville Grammar and when I got the pass letter all I remember my mum saying was 'Another bloody uniform'. It was our dad who was more interested in us getting a good education, my mum's attitude was that there was no point in girls getting a good education because all we'd do is have babies anyway. I suppose that was her experience and she had little forward vision. The fact is, she didn't have to pay for the uniform anyway because we got a quarterly grant to pay for anything we needed, we also had free dinners.
The thing is, I was a bit of a townie at secondary school and spent more time clubbing than studying - I left with six O Levels and scraped one A level. Miss Worthington the headmistress said 'Susan goes into exams relying on her native wit and she'll soon see how far that gets her'. She was right, that is exactly what I did.
Although I obviously didn't make the most of my grammar school experience, I have always really valued having the opportunity to be in that environment with so many very bright girls, it was one of the few positives about my childhood. The fact that I passed the eleven-plus and went to grammar school has boosted my confidence throughout my life. It also meant I felt more than able to help my sons with their education and they both went to grammar school. One went on to Cambridge and is now doing a PhD, the other went to Warwick and then on to doing a masters at the University of Tokyo.
Thank you Trescott. Thank you Bournville and all you lovely girls who taught me so much.

 

[Richard Dye]

When I was eight, my family moved from Ladywood to Northfield and I went to Trescott Junior School. I remember being shifted around a bit at first as they tried to get me in the right class. Me and my best friend ended up in year 6 for two years. We both passed the eleven-plus and both went to Bournville Grammar Tech For Girls. I come from a big family - six girls, five boys. The sister just above me was already at Bournville Grammar and when I got the pass letter all I remember my mum saying was 'Another bloody uniform'. It was our dad who was more interested in us getting a good education, my mum's attitude was that there was no point in girls getting a good education because all we'd do is have babies anyway. I suppose that was her experience and she had little forward vision. The fact is, she didn't have to pay for the uniform anyway because we got a quarterly grant to pay for anything we needed, we also had free dinners.
The thing is, I was a bit of a townie at secondary school and spent more time clubbing than studying - I left with six O Levels and scraped one A level. Miss Worthington the headmistress said 'Susan goes into exams relying on her native wit and she'll soon see how far that gets her'. She was right, that is exactly what I did.
Although I obviously didn't make the most of my grammar school experience, I have always really valued having the opportunity to be in that environment with so many very bright girls, it was one of the few positives about my childhood. The fact that I passed the eleven-plus and went to grammar school has boosted my confidence throughout my life. It also meant I felt more than able to help my sons with their education and they both went to grammar school. One went on to Cambridge and is now doing a PhD, the other went to Warwick and then on to doing a masters at the University of Tokyo.
Thank you Trescott. Thank you Bournville and all you lovely girls who taught me so much.

Well done Brumrocks! Kudos to you…….

 

[trevor bow]

Well done Brumrocks! Kudos to you…….

I also moved to Northfield, but from Hockley in 1954. I was just in time to go to the brand new 'Ley Hill Junior Infant School', starting in September 1954, as I lived in Ley Hill Farm Rd on the new estate. Most of it has now demolished along with the school. The new school on the same site is now called 'Orchard Croft Primary' I believe.
The headmaster at Ley Hill was the infamous 'poisonous dwarf' Derek Wright who would hit you just for breathing. However, along with 5 others he coached us for the 11+ and we all passed in 1957. Myself and a girl named Norma Perry went to Bournville which was two separate boys' and girls' school back then. It amalgamated to become one large mixed comprehensive in 1973. Robert Stoker went to Kings Edwards Camp Hill Grammar, Rodney Bedall went to Kings Norton Grammar and two other boys went to George Dixon Grammar School.

Incidentally Susan, the schools opened as 'Bournville Boys' Technical School' and 'Bournville Girls' Technical School'. The word 'Grammar' was added to the girls' title about 6 years later, and to the boys' about 10 years later. W.P. 'Bill' Jennings was our first headmaster, and Mrs 'Dot' Cotton was the first head at the girls' school. Wasn't Miss Worthington nicknamed 'boozy' ?
I didn't do as well as yourself in that I only got 2 'O' levels and left at 16. However going to Bournville was the making of me and I enjoyed my time there. I became involved with the former pupils' association - The Old Griffinians Association and played rugby, cricket, and football for them for years. We had an annual dinner starting way back and the last one was in 2019 before Covid put paid to any more.

 

[Brumrocks]

Yes, Trevor, Miss D M Worthington was variously known as 'Boozy' or 'Daisy May'. As I said in an earlier post, I was a real townie at secondary school and, one particular day, I was summoned to Miss Worthington's office. She told me that my mother had been on the phone to her sobbing, telling her that I go out every night and don't come home till the early hours and that she can't cope with me. I tutted and raised my eyes as any self-respecting teen would and quick as a flash, the usually contained Miss Worthington, gave me a very hard slap across my face, locked the door and said, 'Now then.' I was in shock. She told me to sit down and explain to her exactly what I did at these clubs. Can you imagine the atmosphere in that room? Can you imagine the embarrassment of letting her anywhere near my night-world? It was e-x-c-r-u-t-i-a-t-i-n-g. Years later, I did a Gestalt counselling course and got the opportunity to re-enact that school experience in a two-chair session in front of the class. It was great, so cathartic, as I was able to really give Boozy a verbal pasting and take back some of the power she stole from me that day.

 

[paul stacey]

I read your tale, with a rye smile on my face, you don't state your age, or the year, but your upbringing was totally apart from my experience. We were disciplined from a very early age, told what to do , how to do and when, and told to smile when we did, in my family, and at school, like a lot of young men of my generation, I went into the military at 15 years old, in 1962, and had no problem with the discipline at all.

 

[Brumrocks]

I hear you Paul. The thing is, that particular incident was a very small piece in a pretty complicated jigsaw and by recounting it, I give others the chance to think they know where the other pieces fit - we all take that risk whenever we say anything. Still, I'm glad I made you smile, albeit wryly.

 

[trevor bow]

Yes, Trevor, Miss D M Worthington was variously known as 'Boozy' or 'Daisy May'. As I said in an earlier post, I was a real townie at secondary school and, one particular day, I was summoned to Miss Worthington's office. She told me that my mother had been on the phone to her sobbing, telling her that I go out every night and don't come home till the early hours and that she can't cope with me. I tutted and raised my eyes as any self-respecting teen would and quick as a flash, the usually contained Miss Worthington, gave me a very hard slap across my face, locked the door and said, 'Now then.' I was in shock. She told me to sit down and explain to her exactly what I did at these clubs. Can you imagine the atmosphere in that room? Can you imagine the embarrassment of letting her anywhere near my night-world? It was e-x-c-r-u-t-i-a-t-i-n-g. Years later, I did a Gestalt counselling course and got the opportunity to re-enact that school experience in a two-chair session in front of the class. It was great, so cathartic, as I was able to really give Boozy a verbal pasting and take back some of the power she stole from me that day.

Oh dear oh dear oh Susan ! Well you certainly upset 'boozy', that's for sure, if she resorted to physical assault - i.e. slapping your face very hard. I always thought that corporal punishment in senior girls' schools was banned, but obviously not. Slippering across the backside, face slapping, even being punched, was the order of the day up the drive at our boys' school if you seriously stepped out of line. Expulsion was the next step. Our headmaster, 'Bill' Jennings, was strict and lord help you if you got sent to his office. I saw really hard, big,16 year old lads standing outside his office, quivering in their boots. But when I got to know 'BIll' plus all the other strict teachers at the Old Griffinians annual dinners and other socials that they used to attend, they seemed completely different people, being very friendly, asking about your life etc. Doing that Gestalt course obviously helped you enormously, because for a 15/16 year old girl to go through very personal details must have been so humiliating at that age. Had I not met and got to know my former teachers, I dare say I would have benefited from a course like that ! What years did you and your sister attend btw ? As I mentioned, I was there from '57 until '62.

 

[Brumrocks]

It's funny Trevor but I actually quite admired Miss Worthington as a headmistress, I was most impressed by the fact that she knew the name of every girl in the school. I just felt my boundaries had been crossed by my mother and Miss Worthington - I didn't want my mum in my secondary school life and I didn't want Miss Worthington either meddling in family relationships or worst of all having any sort of insight into or opinions about my night life as that was my refuge from home and school. That slap was the only time I had every experienced any physical punishment at the school and that was why I was so shocked by it and I certainly hadn't heard of anyone else being hit.
I was at Bournville from '63 to '70.

 

[trevor bow]

It's funny Trevor but I actually quite admired Miss Worthington as a headmistress, I was most impressed by the fact that she knew the name of every girl in the school. I just felt my boundaries had been crossed by my mother and Miss Worthington - I didn't want my mum in my secondary school life and I didn't want Miss Worthington either meddling in family relationships or worst of all having any sort of insight into or opinions about my night life as that was my refuge from home and school. That slap was the only time I had every experienced any physical punishment at the school and that was why I was so shocked by it and I certainly hadn't heard of anyone else being hit.
I was at Bournville from '63 to '70.

I suppose at the end of the day Susan, your mother and 'boozy' had your best interests at heart but as you say, your activities away from school shouldn't have been of any interest apart from yourself. Reading some of the comments on a couple of Facebook sites about Bournville, it seems the really scary disciplinarian was someone called Miss Smith who taught needle craft. It frightened me just reading about her !

 

[Ernie B]

Every pupil in the top junior year took the 11+ exam. I passed in 1960 and went to a girls' grammar school. The exam included IQ tests as well as maths and English. Girls had to pass with an IQ of 120 or so and boys with an IQ of 110 or so. The difference was because there were fewer grammar school places for girls than boys. The exam was weighted against September birthday pupils who had to pass with higher marks than those who had birthdays in the summer months. My parents found it difficult to afford the uniform and like other contributors to the thread my uniform was rather large in the first year. My first uniform lasted 3 years and had to be replaced for the 4th year. There were about 600 girls in school including the 6th form. I do not remember any bullying and almost no poor behaviour. I had a 2 bus journey each way. 5 years at a girls' grammar school was a positive learning experience.

Thank you for using my favourite font comic sans 11 point. Ernie B

 

[Richard Dye]

Don’t worry with over 32,500 members there would be many more who didn’t pass.

Yes, count me in on that list!

 

[Michael_Ingram]

I also moved to Northfield, but from Hockley in 1954. I was just in time to go to the brand new 'Ley Hill Junior Infant School', starting in September 1954, as I lived in Ley Hill Farm Rd on the new estate. Most of it has now demolished along with the school. The new school on the same site is now called 'Orchard Croft Primary' I believe.
The headmaster at Ley Hill was the infamous 'poisonous dwarf' Derek Wright who would hit you just for breathing. However, along with 5 others he coached us for the 11+ and we all passed in 1957. Myself and a girl named Norma Perry went to Bournville which was two separate boys' and girls' school back then. It amalgamated to become one large mixed comprehensive in 1973. Robert Stoker went to Kings Edwards Camp Hill Grammar, Rodney Bedall went to Kings Norton Grammar and two other boys went to George Dixon Grammar School.

Incidentally Susan, the schools opened as 'Bournville Boys' Technical School' and 'Bournville Girls' Technical School'. The word 'Grammar' was added to the girls' title about 6 years later, and to the boys' about 10 years later. W.P. 'Bill' Jennings was our first headmaster, and Mrs 'Dot' Cotton was the first head at the girls' school. Wasn't Miss Worthington nicknamed 'boozy' ?
I didn't do as well as yourself in that I only got 2 'O' levels and left at 16. However going to Bournville was the making of me and I enjoyed my time there. I became involved with the former pupils' association - The Old Griffinians Association and played rugby, cricket, and football for them for years. We had an annual dinner starting way back and the last one was in 2019 before Covid put paid to any more.

I went to Birmingham Art School with Rodney Bedall, we remained good friends, living in London. Rodney now lives in Amsterdam after a successful acting career

 

[Richard Dye]

I also moved to Northfield, but from Hockley in 1954. I was just in time to go to the brand new 'Ley Hill Junior Infant School', starting in September 1954, as I lived in Ley Hill Farm Rd on the new estate. Most of it has now demolished along with the school. The new school on the same site is now called 'Orchard Croft Primary' I believe.
The headmaster at Ley Hill was the infamous 'poisonous dwarf' Derek Wright who would hit you just for breathing. However, along with 5 others he coached us for the 11+ and we all passed in 1957. Myself and a girl named Norma Perry went to Bournville which was two separate boys' and girls' school back then. It amalgamated to become one large mixed comprehensive in 1973. Robert Stoker went to Kings Edwards Camp Hill Grammar, Rodney Bedall went to Kings Norton Grammar and two other boys went to George Dixon Grammar School.

Incidentally Susan, the schools opened as 'Bournville Boys' Technical School' and 'Bournville Girls' Technical School'. The word 'Grammar' was added to the girls' title about 6 years later, and to the boys' about 10 years later. W.P. 'Bill' Jennings was our first headmaster, and Mrs 'Dot' Cotton was the first head at the girls' school. Wasn't Miss Worthington nicknamed 'boozy' ?
I didn't do as well as yourself in that I only got 2 'O' levels and left at 16. However going to Bournville was the making of me and I enjoyed my time there. I became involved with the former pupils' association - The Old Griffinians Association and played rugby, cricket, and football for them for years. We had an annual dinner starting way back and the last one was in 2019 before Covid put paid to any more.

Trevor, I find it interesting that your were coached. At Westminster Rd School we just took the test. I did not pass and might not have if I were coached. What this says to me is that the system was broken! Nothing against anyone who passed but those who did not were basically pushed back. I could go on but I won’t, I have been fortunate enough to have a relatively successful life in engineering and company management. As they say it sure would have been nice to have a little coaching and level the playing field!

 

[trevor bow]

I went to Birmingham Art School with Rodney Bedall, we remained good friends, living in London. Rodney now lives in Amsterdam after a successful acting career

It's a small world Michael. So Rodney Bedall was a professional actor and had a good career. You just never know how people's lives work out and I suppose Rodney's was quite a successful one.

 

[trevor bow]

Trevor, I find it interesting that your were coached. At Westminster Rd School we just took the test. I did not pass and might not have if I were coached. What this says to me is that the system was broken! Nothing against anyone who passed but those who did not were basically pushed back. I could go on but I won’t, I have been fortunate enough to have a relatively successful life in engineering and company management. As they say it sure would have been nice to have a little coaching and level the playing field!

Hi Richard,
Yes, it was a totally absurd system which decided your life at the age of 10/11. You passed to a Grammar or Technical school and failed to a Secondary Modern school. Luckily, many children like yourself went on to have successful careers whether they passed the 11+ or not. People sometimes moan about 'bog standard comprehensives' but when you ask if they would like to see the 11+ restored, they usually go quiet. There's nothing wrong with the comprehensive system because it gives each child the chance to progress at their own rate. They're not written off at 10/11 like they used to be.

 

[Richard Dye]

Hi Richard,
Yes, it was a totally absurd system which decided your life at the age of 10/11. You passed to a Grammar or Technical school and failed to a Secondary Modern school. Luckily, many children like yourself went on to have successful careers whether they passed the 11+ or not. People sometimes moan about 'bog standard comprehensives' but when you ask if they would like to see the 11+ restored, they usually go quiet. There's nothing wrong with the comprehensive system because it gives each child the chance to progress at their own rate. They're not written off at 10/11 like they used to be.

Trevor, we are in violent agreement! The comprehensive system provides opportunities for all.
When our son went to University ( he is our oldest) he was an undeclared student. My wife and I were horrified that he did not know what he wanted to do/be. He went to a Catholic university administered by the nuns. When we took him to school we were invited to a meeting for parents of undeclared students. It was 60% of the freshman class. They went on to tell us that most students change their major by the start of their third year! They were right. He graduated well with a double major, finance and marketing and go a full scholarship to graduate school and an assistantship in International Finance!
I doubt he would have passed the 11+, today he is leading the merger of two US banks, we are very proud!