• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
  • HI folks the server that hosts the site completely died including the Hdd's and backups.
    Luckily i create an offsite backup once a week! this has now been restored so we have lost a few days posts.
    im still fixing things at the moment so bear with me and im still working on all images 90% are fine the others im working on now
    we are now using a backup solution

Grammar schools and comprehensives in Birmingham in the 50s and 60s.

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Madeleine

New Member
I am gathering recollections of sitting the 11+ examination in Birmingham in the 50s and 60s, for a essay about the introduction of comprehensive schools. Also of interest is the reasons why a place at a grammar school was not taken up. Do respondents feel that more grammar schools should be created and if so why?
 
I think one of the reason why they were not taken up was the distance from home to the school. This happened in my case as I was sent to Bartley Green Grammar School from Hockley and was a 2 bus journey taking over 1.25 hrs and when you have been used to just walking to school within 10 minutes and at the age of 11 doing this journey on your own it was very daunting, plus there was no one else within the area attending the school, my parents moved me after the first year and I went to Harry Lucas. Of course the other main problem was parents couldnt afford the uniform etc. But I do agree that 11+ was a good thing.
 
I went to Erdington Grammar in the 50s,when I went we had to submit our 3 choices,mine were Erdington,Saltley and Handsworth.

I think it was based on what marks you achieved but I was lucky enough to go to Erdington, where I lived.
Kitting me out with uniform was a very expensive time for my parents.
Later the headmistress at Erdington(Miss Hill) entered me for the entrance exam to King Edwards High(I think you had to be 13 to go there) and I passed but after the expense of
sending me to Erdington my parents thought that it best I stay where I was.
I was never a good learner but a good exam taker.LOL
My sister was the opposite.She failed her 11+ and went to Fentham Road but a year later she retook it and went to Holte Grammar.

Although Grammar schools were an excellent idea and in a way I wish they were still around ,I think to gain entrance to a school based on one written exam is wrong.

I don't remember if everyone had the chance to sit the 11+ or whether you could opt out, or even if you were given the chance because it was felt you had the ability to pass.
 
With all exams at that time you had nothing but yourself to try your hardest and to swat very hard in preparation. Today is so different they have the internet to cut and paste from other people's work, they are allowed to use calculators, some smuggle in mobile phones. Perhaps this shows today with spelling (using spellcheck) and simple sums where some young people cannot do simple mathematics in their heads and rely on machines to do this for them.
 
I don't know whether it was the case with other local grammar schools, but at the time I arrived in 1944 my own school, Bishop Vesey's in Sutton Coldfield, had a Junior School where pupils spent two years before, in all probability, transferring to the main school. Entry to the Junior School was determined by a written examination in English and Arithmetic (and perhaps General Knowledge as well, although I do not remember exactly) and this was presumably of the school's own choosing. My own class was the last to go through the Junior School and it then closed.

One day in the spring of 1946 we were nonchalantly handed out some papers and told to fill in the answers. I certainly wasn't aware at the time that I was taking the 11+ (especially as I was barely 10 at the time) and I don't think many of my contemporaries were either. Not a bad way of preventing young kids getting stewed up over a written exam of some importance!

Not too surprisingly almost everyone passed and those who elected to stay started their formal grammar school education the following September. Just a few went to other schools of their parents' choice but I doubt whether any of these decisions were taken on economic grounds as the parents had already accepted the cost implications of a school of this type - uniforms, sports kit and so on.

Chris
 
I took the 11 plus in 1965 whilst attending Manor Park Junior School in Aston. After we returned the form showing King Edwards Grammar School, Handsworth as first choice of of grammar school, my mum was called in to see my head teacher who tried to persuade her that no pupil from Aston stood any chance of getting to such a prestigious school so she should put another one first. She stuck to her guns, I passed and got a place at KEGSH. Only two of us passed the 11 plus and the other pupil went to Handsworth Grammar for Boys.
I know that my parents found it a struggle to pay for all the uniform I had to have and I had to wear blouses, skirts etc that were all far too big for me so that they would (and did) last me right through to the sixth form. I particularly remember that we had to have both indoor and outdoor shoes and my indoor ones were white (probably bought in a sale) that Mum dyed brown, they looked awful!
 
I went to a SMS in weoley castle I deliberately failed my 11+ because the kids at my juniour school were all going to local schools, and the story was that everything was expensive uniforms ect, and the nearest was 2 bus journeys away. I did pass the entrance examination when 13 yrs old for a scholarship for the Birmingham School of Art, but again my father said it would be too disruptive and expensive to go so I didn't.
paul
 
My eldest brother passed the 11+ and went to King Edwards Five Ways Grammar School. This school was located at Five Ways in those days. It was a long way from Marsh Hill to Five Ways every school day. Not only were school uniforms expensive but if you joined any teams at school with uniforms that was another outlay and also if you joined the Army training programme, as my brother did, you had to buy all sorts of equipment besides the uniform. I failed my 11+ plus in 1953 and was told that there were fewer places available at grammar schools in Birmingham that year and the margin of failure for my exam results was very narrow. I sat my 11+ at King Edward's G. School in Rosehill Road and I can remember the whole event. I also remember the day the envelope came saying I had failed the exam.

My Mother enrolled me in a private school in Birmingham and once again the uniform list was very long. Eventually, after a couple of years I wanted to come back to school locally and be with my friends from Erdington who attended Fentham Road. My mother agreed only if I would go to night school a couple of nights per week in Birmingham to learn shorthand and typing. So I did at Underwood's Secretarial College in Albert Street. The secondary schools in Birmingham in 1956 were not offering "stay on" courses for girls to learn shorthand. The initial 'stay on' classes only involved typing lessons, at least at Fentham Road. It all worked out though because when I got my first job I was able to write Pitman's shorthand...I was l5 years old.
 
Forgot to mention that in the 50s you could leave Secondary school at 15 yrs but had to stay until 16yrs at Grammar.
Some of my friends refused to go to Grammar because they couldn't wait to finish with school.
 
A bit further afield and in the early 70s, I took my 11+ at MacGregor Junior School to go to the Queen Elizabeth Grammar School in Tamworth. Although all pupils had the chance to take the exam, I was the only one who passed it and it was a daunting time for me, having a special uniform and shoes and going to a new big school where I knew no-one, especially as all the other schools had a number of entrants.
I did have a few times when I wished I hadn't passed the exam, but now am pleased II think the exam encouraged us to work hard, but today, may not mean anything - it was quite an accomplishment then and getting a grammar school place earned respect today a lot of the pupils don't care - a sign of society I think!
Sue
 
I passed the 11+ in 1964. The whole process was something that filled me with utter dread. Not only were my parents eager for me to go to grammar school, so was my junior school. There was absolutely no doubt about whether I would take up a place if I passed. I recall doing the exams along with the whole of my class. I even remember the essay I wrote for the English paper (about a lost pet tortoise, and the adventure of searching for it - never even owned a tortoise!!). I think it's imprinted on my mind because I was so anxious about the whole thing. I remember getting the results letter too and racing full pelt down the road to meet my mum coming home from work to give her the good news. What a relief! That said, I never really enjoyed grammar school. Viv.
 
I think I am right in saying that Birmingham LEA introduced two purpose built comprehensive schools in the second half of the fifties - Great Barr and Sheldon Heath. I seem to recall that they were given designated catchment areas and that the 11+ was not allowed within them - changed later. The Crowther report of 1959 was the first nail in the coffin of the 11+ as it started to show the total unfairness of selection at 11. In Birmingham it was particularly unfair on girls because there were fewer grammar school places compared to boys.
 
Every pupil in the top junior year took the 11+ exam. I passed in 1960 and went to a girls' grammar school. The exam included IQ tests as well as maths and English. Girls had to pass with an IQ of 120 or so and boys with an IQ of 110 or so. The difference was because there were fewer grammar school places for girls than boys. The exam was weighted against September birthday pupils who had to pass with higher marks than those who had birthdays in the summer months. My parents found it difficult to afford the uniform and like other contributors to the thread my uniform was rather large in the first year. My first uniform lasted 3 years and had to be replaced for the 4th year. There were about 600 girls in school including the 6th form. I do not remember any bullying and almost no poor behaviour. I had a 2 bus journey each way. 5 years at a girls' grammar school was a positive learning experience.
 
I was born in 1946 and when I was in the top year of junior school it was the last year that you could opt out of sitting the exam. I didn't want to take the exam as my brother attended King Edwards and he had reams of home work every evening and that did not appeal to me one little bit. Mr Long the Headmaster came to try and persuade my parents to make me change my mind but I was quite happy to go to Mannor Park Girls. As it was our school gave you the option to stay on for a fifth year and we took the same exams as the local grammar schools.
 
I took my 11+ at Queensbridge School Kings Heath, my choices were King Edwards Camp Hill, Moseley Grammar School & Waverley Grammar School, I finished up at Waverley which would have been my first choice as it was a Football playing school.
It was a funny experience really as I had never sat a formal exam before, we only had tests at Junior School in class & knew our results there & then.
I didn't enjoy school apart from sport but now on reflection they were great times & I wished I had worked harder at Waverley, I still meet up with a lot of my schoolmates even now 50 years after leaving.
 
As a retired teacher from a comprehensive school I gave thanks almost daily when at work that I went to a girls' grammar school. The academic standard was so much higher as was the behaviour. Not only I thought this but so did colleagues who by coincidence attended the same school as I did but in different year groups. However, the point of comprehensives was that all abilities were to be catered for. Unfortunately, the cleverer pupils really missed out.
 
Does anyone have a photo of Oakley road school, in Small Heath. I attended this school in the 50s, I have looked everywhere but can't find any pics, can anyone help please.
 
Any further help on Oakley Road School, in Small Heath, for CaroleC, please?

And may we assume, Madeleine, that all the help given by several members in this thread was useful to you? (An acknowledgement WOULD be appreciated!)

Chris
 
Hi Jim,

Me too, also from Camp Hill, I can't remember which month it was, so I would have been in Year 1 or 2.

I can't believe it was 60 years ago!

Kind regards

Dave
 
Hi Jim and Dave. The visit was in November 1955 so I would have been in my second year at Camp Hill having started in September 1954. I think only a selected number went to the event at King Edwards and I, unfortunately, wasn't one of them. Dave.
 
My sister went to The Rosary, my brother to St Phillips Grammar school and both were born before the war. I came along after the war and was encouraged by my father to pass the 11+ in that I could have a bike if I passed. I lived in Stechford at the time of my 11+ and I can remember Dad taking me to Harrison Barrow Girls Grammar School and was the only child in my road to take the 11+.
I passed but by that time we had moved to Hall Green where most of the children went to Grammar. It was a great school but only prepared us for an academic life whereas Secondary Schools prepared pupils for work. In later life I believed that my Grammar School education enabled me to progress in my career, in that I started a position quite low but quickly progressed up the chain of command, no matter for which Company I worked.
 
I have to admit that I hated school, but was probably even more fearful of what lay beyond! I took the 11+ from College Road Juniors and was the youngest in the class anyway. I can't remember much about the actual exam, but some time afterwards I was called to an interview with the Headmaster, Mr Shakespeare, to be told that I was a borderline case, i.e. it was down to him what would be my fate! I was told that along with my mother, I would be going for an interview with the Headmaster of Moseley Grammar School, and if all went well, I would be starting there the following September.

Being a borderline pass I would be going into the lowest of four streams, 1D, and I would be re-assessed at the end of each year. I was moved up two grades at the end of the first year and also dropped biology, in which I had no real interest. To be honest, I didn't fancy disecting frogs which you had to do from the second year. My father died the following year, so all did not run smoothly. But at the end of year five came the biggest inequity of the whole system.....

Unless you were 16 by a certain date in September, you were not allowed to take GCE 'O' Levels and had to stay on for another year. So about 31 of us across the 4 grades were pushed into an additional year called 5X. I was told that I couldn't take Physics and Chemistry 'O' Levels (two of my best subjects) but that we all had to take General Science I and General Science II, a third of each paper comprising biology, which I hadn't done since Year I. Accordingly I failed General Science II, but somehow managed to pass General Science I. I believe that silly age system was scrapped about two years later, but those of us who encountered it remain bitter to this day.

I couldn't stay on to take 'A' levels - for one thing I didn't have the requisite number of 'O' Levels and secondly, without a father, my widowed mother was really struggling to keep me at school. None of the benefits that widowed parents get today. I don't think that any of us in that extra year stayed on to do 'A' Levels.

Maurice
 
I have to say that I was not so lucky at school. Started school pre-war, 1938. Acocks Green Infant School, aged 5. Finished at Golden Hillock Road Secondary Modern, aged 15.

In between, due to WW2, I went to ten schools in ten years of education. No 'O' or 'A' Levels, no school certificates, but I still managed to do well in life, even finished up teaching music in schools!!

Education is most important, that can be taught, but intelligence, is what really works.

Eddie
 
Eddie,

I think we all battled the system as well as we could! Fortunately, I started MGS in 1947, well after the war was over. I can't comprehend what it must have been like being just a few years older - mayhem I should think!

Maurice
 
farmerdave said:
Hi Jim and Dave. The visit was in November 1955 . I think only a selected number went to the event at King Edwards and I, unfortunately, wasn't one of them. Dave.
Click to expand...
By Nov '55 I would have been 15 and in 5th year. Reading some of the subsequent posts, at Camp Hill we were fortunate I took "O" levels at 15 and went on to 6th form at the new King's Heath buildings. I still have a copy of the souvenir programme of the new school's opening. My wife who was at Waverley took O Levels at 15 and was planning to leave in July 1956 but was made to honour her promise to remain at the school until her 16th birthday and so went back to school for some six weeks from Sept '56 until her birthday in the October! Despite not being a brilliant scholar I believe having "Camp Hill" on my CV was an advantage.
 
Hello devonjim,
I also went to Waverley Grammar School and left in July 1956. Several of my friends had to stay on until the end of 1956, because they had not reached the age of 16. You said the same applied to your wife. What was her name? Maybe we were in the same form.
Ted Alexander
 
I am very confused as usual. I went to Yardley Primary age 5 to age? then to Cockshut Hill for only a short time. why? then age 11? I THINK I went to Moseley School of art till age 15? (Dave I need your help mate) Then went to work for the sculptor Willam Bloye till I went in the RAF age 18. John Crump
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top