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Fleischmanns, Wildays, Waddells, Temples and Ibbersons

The Devonian

New Member
Greetings.

I come in peace as a new Devonian member, looking for help and advice.

My 5th great grandfather was Charles Wilday (abt 1750-1808) , proprietor of the Shakespeare Tavern next to the New Theatre. His daughter Elizabeth married Patrick Fleischmann, a merchant from Amsterdam who was in turn my paternal 4th great grandfather.

Their son John Baptiste Fleischmann married in 1833 Mary Waddell, whose father William was proprietor of The Hen & Chickens just up the road, which makes William Waddell also my 4th great grandfather.

William married Sarah Ibberson, son of Christopher who was proprietor of the George and Blue Boar in Holborn. All of these families were connected through trade and commerce, principally as hoteliers, innkeepers, stagecoach owners, liquor merchants etc. There are quite a few other Birmingham families with close connections including the Copes, Izods, Stovins Amos and others.

Any help or advice regarding the best records to research the families would be welcome. Specifically, I think that Charles Wilday of the Shakespeare was married to a Mary Temple but I cant verify this.

Also I have very little information on William Waddells family history and predecessors. I think that he may have been the son of Thomas W and Mary Barnhard, but I cant verify this either.

Lastly the Ibbersons. I think that I am right in saying that one of his sons (possibly Henry) took over the Hen and Chickens, presumably when William Waddell died, but I have no record to prove this. Were the Ibbersons originally a Birmingham family?

Any help or clues on any of the above would be really welcome.

Finally I have in my possession various correspondence and documents which may be interest which I would be happy to share.

I attach by way of example copies of a letter sent by Elizabeth Fleischmann (Nee Wilday) to her sister Mary in 1803 at The New Hotel which by then was being run by their brother William.

I look forward to any and all clues, advice or information which may help.

Thanks in anticipation!
 

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welcome devonian i have moved this thread from general discussion to the surname interest of the forum where you may get more of a response...

lyn
 
For a start Chas Wilday is mentioned in passing as at the Shakespeare Tavern, New St. in 1801.

Could the JBF referred to be the one that in 31 Aug 1829 appears in the Birmingham Gazette mentioned in Brothers Bankrupts?

552CC415-8286-45E6-A187-C27CF675DC13.jpeg
 
The Brothers had Wholesale Warehouse at 27 Whittall St. But probably 27 Temple Row which is mentioned on other occasions.

There is a mention in 1840 of Waddell and Bretherton as proprietors of the Hen and Chickens, and also the Swan Castle
 
and to go with pedros info although you may have it here is a drawing of the shakespeare new st dated 1815...pedro what was the location of the hen and chickens and the swan castle

lyn


City Shakespeare New St 1815 .jpg
 
For a start Chas Wilday is mentioned in passing as at the Shakespeare Tavern, New St. in 1801.

Could the JBF referred to be the one that in 31 Aug 1829 appears in the Birmingham Gazette mentioned in Brothers Bankrupts?

View attachment 145085
Yes he and his brother Patrich
For a start Chas Wilday is mentioned in passing as at the Shakespeare Tavern, New St. in 1801.

Could the JBF referred to be the one that in 31 Aug 1829 appears in the Birmingham Gazette mentioned in Brothers Bankrupts?

View attachment 145085
Hi Pedro, thanks for this. Yes I have seen this before. John Baptiste and his brother Patrick Charles were importing from Holland and the Dutch West Indies and were caught up in the political events on the continent. PCF went back to Holland to teach English. JBF went up to run the Scarborough Hotel in Leeds and later the Castle Hotel in Spean. These were both coaching inns but business dried up because of the railways and the coaches were converted to funeral hearses. At the same time he was importing ostrich feathers from the Cape and his daughters ran an ostrich feather dying business in Victorian London.
 
The Brothers had Wholesale Warehouse at 27 Whittall St. But probably 27 Temple Row which is mentioned on other occasions.

There is a mention in 1840 of Waddell and Bretherton as proprietors of the Hen and Chickens, and also the Swan Castle
Thank you. That's helpful.
 
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