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Fall Of The Third Reich

B

Beryl M

Guest
Fall Of The Third Reich

Starting a war is easy - the difficult part is ending it. When Churchill, Stalin and Roosvelt met at Yalta in February 1945 they knew the war against Hitler’s Thousand Year Reich was all but won even if much hard fighting remained. Their attention was focused on postwar Europe and the destruction of the Japanese Empire. These discussions were greatly influenced by the military situation in both theatres of war and we need to remind ourselves of what the world looked like in the months of 1945.

Thje German offensive of 1944 as remembered the Battle of the Bulge consumed the energies of the Anglo and American Armies well into January 1045. When it was over the Allies began preparation for a major offensive that would take them to the Rhine the objective they had tried to reach at Arnhem in September 1944. The operational challenges c confronting the Anglo American armies we compounded by a shortage of replacements and a growing differences by the British and American over conducts of the war Field Marshal Montgomery infamous press conference in which he seemed to claim credit for the defeat of the German Ardennes Offensive which was just one of the issues which strained Allied unity.

On the Eastern front the situation was very different by February 1945 the Red army had reached into the heart of Germany - The success of the Red army and the halting success of the West was evident to all.

Considering circumstances the agreement at Yalta seemed to promise more than Britain and the U.S could have ever hoped for - The Declaration on Liberated Europe – free elections meant a similar future for those under Soviet control - The United Nations was established hailed as a great triumph, but Stalin had no intention of allowing free elections in Poland . Churchill was in full cry of the Soviet Union and urged the U.S to finish the war in Berlin. But Eisenhower was determined to withdraw U.S forces. He planned to leave Berlin to the Soviets. Montgomery committed his troops to a series of costly battles for objectives that would have been bypassed if Berlin had fallen.

Eisenhower’s decision to avoid Berlin would mean that Montgomery’s 21st army corp. was to protect the U.S military flank, clear northern Germany near the Baltic, cutting off any Soviet occupation of Denmark. These opperations proved beyond the resources of the 2nd British Army and Montgomery determined to avoid asking for American assistance drew upon Canadians to help carry out his plan………….
 
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Hi

Looking at Harry Patch at 109 staring over the Ist World War
battlefields he was unaware of the horror just around the corner.
The Third Reich in its day ruled the world.
Looking through the past acclaiming heros has now been done.
Throughout most coverage today bits and bobs refer to the work
done at Bletchley Park. Refered to has codebreakers.
Without the genius of Alan Turing OBE I doubt wether any other person had
the knowledge to crack these complex codes.
he invented the first computer known as collossus.
This was on-line for the D Day Landings.
Allan Turing possible due to MI5 or some secret service area due to
his lifestyle which today is perfectly acceptable committed sucide
in 1954.
The millions of people who owe their existence lives saved in the War
the ending of the Third Reich are down to this mans work.
for some reason his whole work was destroyed by Churchill the reasons
seen a complete nonsense to me other than the heroes were not going
to come out of Bletchley Park.
Imagine with this Technolgy in 1945 we went back to the slide rule
and Log Tables. It took IBM nearly 10 years to develop this type of
Technolgy.
To me he ranks way up in the lists of hero's of the War but his life
and work during those years is now virtually forgotten.

MIKE Jenks
 
I like you Mike don't know the reason as to why Alan Turing OBE entire work was destroyed by Churchill - Maybe it was because he was arrested in 1952 for scandalous behavour - That's how it was looked on back as a disgrace. However, I don't think his lifestyle is anybody's business. .

Churchill was part of what really happened in the true events related to World War 11. He did sponsor such an operation - a secret civilian agency called Special Operations Executive (SOE) and his master spy, ‘Intrepid,’ director of the British Security Coordination. He was as ruthless as either Hitler or Stalin in his strategies to beat them, such as exposing villagers and citizens in Nazi-occupied territories to terrible reprisals just to unify the local people into secret resistance. He believed the formation of a fifth column was absolutely necessary to winning against the Third Reich. I must say I am intrigued with his style of speech--the rhythm and choice of words - which William L. Shirer notes in hisThe Nightmare Years 1930-1940’ –

Churchill rarely came out and said directly what he wanted. He used words in euphemisms – similar to Hitler actually, like planted seeds for others to interpret. . As an admirer of Churchill we may never be able to criticize that what he did because it was necessary to win the war against such a sadistic enemy. . . He was a bully fighting bullies.
 
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Hi

It seems that Alan Turing is gradually getting his name
put into some sought of correct Historic context.
Without him the whole course of the War would have been
different. His skills won the War for us Monty at El Alemain
had all the Radio information on Rommels positions.
Some sought of posthumous award is vital to clear the
terrible things done to him.
Tens and tens of millions owe their existence to him.

Mike Jenks
 
Yes Mike, I heard yesterday that Alan Turing who was homosexual has been pardoned by Gordon Brown. It is a strange word to use isn't it- pardoned, when his was such a huge contribution to our defeating Nazism, but his suicide somehow seemed to give reign to Winston Churchills condemnation of him. I heard Turing's niece on the radio last night. The family were devastated when he died, his niece knew nothing of his fall from grace, and her father hid it from her. However she does recall her father telling her that if anyone ever asked her about her Uncle she was tell them nothing. She remembers him as an eccentric, untidy lovely man.

I saw the film about Bletchley Park 'Enigma'. I found it a poor film, and cannot recall if Alan Turing was one of the chracters in it. I can't even remember the plot line in it.
 
hi all
Germany and Japan had lost the war before it had properly started, the allies had the complete enigma coding system for the Germans in 1938, and the Americans broke the Japanese codes in 1941.The German updates for enigma for the Kriegsmarine were captured from a submarine in 1942. I agree with you all, about Alan Turing and his team at Bletchley Park with out these dedicated men and women our and the allied losses would have been much more severe. We in the UK tend to treat our hero's differently from say the Americans we are quite ressitent to applaud acheivment and think it unsightly to praise loudly.
Regards
paul
 
Hi

This is an old Thread.
This week as normal I sped through the Local Solihull and staring out was an old
friend of Mom and Dad a certain Betty Webb.
Im going back to the Mid 70's when I first met her with Mom and Dad. She was a Captain
in the Army. On and off we bumped into each other but her Husband died some years ago.
Well she was a Bletchly Girl. Clearly the recent TV series and Jules Hudson War series has awoke
a lot of our thoughts. Ive copied the article Carl reckons it was in the Mail as well

Mike Jenks
 

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I've just come across Beryl M's original post , I think it worth mentioning that when Germany went into the Rhineland in 1936 with almost 20,000 men . The French cabinets vote to take action was defeated by one vote , had it gone the other way , all those heroic boys and girls in the forces may have had a longer life . Not forgetting at all those poor unfortunates that met their ends in the death camps , I've often thought about this when I've read books by Lale Sokolov, Dita Kraus , and our own Kitty Hart from Kings Heath . How their suffering could have been avoided .
 
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