• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
  • HI folks the server that hosts the site completely died including the Hdd's and backups.
    Luckily i create an offsite backup once a week! this has now been restored so we have lost a few days posts.
    im still fixing things at the moment so bear with me and im still working on all images 90% are fine the others im working on now
    we are now using a backup solution

Elizabeth Baker

Lady Penelope

Lady Penelope

master brummie
I'm struggling to find any information on Elizabeth Baker who has a window dedicated to her in St Michael's, Boldmere. The dedication on the window reads 'To the Glory of God and in loving memory of Elizabeth Baker, a devoted wife and mother interred in this churchyard 30th March 1892. There is no address in the church register only 'Aston Manor'.

The inscription on the grave, reads 'In loving memory of Elizabeth wife of Joseph Baker of 114 Victoria Road, Aston who died March 26th 1892 aged 56 years. Devoted wife and mother'.

I've tried to find the family myself but there are so many Joseph Bakers married to Elizabeths that I've had no luck so far. Is there a way of searching for the address on either Ancestry or FindmyPast?

I'm puzzled why she should be buried at St Michael's when she lived in Aston and wondered if either her husband or children moved here. They must have been quite wealthy to have a window in the church and the gravestone is quite an impressive one too.

Any leads or help would be very much appreciated please.
 
Other than the 1911 census, the only way I know is to find a nearby person with a less common name from directories and work along the road on the census. At first I thought wonderful, as 116 (in 1892 directory) was Walter Howard Ingall , registrar of births, but he does not come up in the search so either was not at home, misstranscribed or not living at the address, it being merely a business address. However 110 was David Littlehales. But this gave the following for no 114.


1891.Warw.aston.aston manor.dist.39.p.17 no 114 victoria rd.jpg
 
Thanks for looking Mike. I don't remember seeing a grave with a specific address such as this one although I expect there are some around. It must have been significant for it to appear on the stone though. It just becomes more puzzling.
 
as she died in 1892 i tried to find the family on the 1891 but so far no luck

lyn
 
Hi Lyn, nice to 'see' you again! Hope you'll soon be on top form. It hasn't seemed right without you.

No, I seem to be going round in circles with this one. I thought I'd found them once but on reflection I don't think it's them. I found a marriage at Aston Parish church and the address of the couple was given as 'Aston Manor'. The groom was a lawyer and the bride an office clerk and the ages seemed right. The grooms father was a 'coal master'. Then they seemed to be in Bentley, Staffs and he had a different job. Very strange!!

I'll just keep on looking I suppose.

Thanks for trying.
 
bless you pen....just looking at mikes census he posted and im taking it its for 1891 the numbering is strange in that it goes 104...106...114 then 112...but surely 112 cant come after 114 or am i missing something..

lyn
 
Sorry Lyn, should have made it clear that 114 seems to be on the edge of a census district. The numbers 114 on are Victoria Road, while the numbers up to 106 are in Potters Hill.
Also confirm that census was 1892
 
Joseph Baker appears to die in 1928 and is buried with his wife in the churchyard. On the grave his age is listed as 82, which would make him 10 years younger than Elizabeth. Haven't found anything else though.
 
No help but there are adverts with the address of 114, Victoria Road in 1890 for surname Parsons, and in 1896 for Oxborrow.
 
Thank you all - MWS - How did you manage to find that out? I couldn't find him in the the church records but I can now look at that date and see what other information there is.

Peter, what were the adverts for please?
 
It's from findagrave...

www.findagrave.com

Joseph Baker (1928-unknown) - Find a Grave...

Born on 5 Dec 1928. Buried in Boldmere, West Midlands, England.
www.findagrave.com www.findagrave.com

...the date of death seems to have been listed as date of birth but if you click on the picture it appears correct. I was hoping for more Bakers but there's just the two.
 
Ancestry only seems to list 3 josephs married to Elizabeths of about (+/-5) correct age around Birmingham or adjacent counties in the 1881 census. One in Lench st, who is a gunmaker,( Jo aged 36, Eliz. 33), one in Avon St, Yardley, who is a butcher (Jlos.33, eliz 40) and one in Augusta Road Edgbaston (jos 33, eliz 40) who is coachman (? see scan below)

ScreenHunter 928.jpg
 
Lady Penelope said:
Thank you all - MWS - How did you manage to find that out? I couldn't find him in the the church records but I can now look at that date and see what other information there is.

Peter, what were the adverts for please?
Click to expand...

Oxborrow wanted a man to deliver Mineral water and Parsons (also 1887) was a Wholesale milk Dealer. In 1901 there was a tragic suicide at the house.
 
Mike, not really an update but I found that your 'coachman' was living next door to George Dixon, or at least he was next on the census, so possibly their coachman do you think? As with a lot of roads, the number is a little odd.

I'm still working on this Joseph after the 1881 but with a little difficulty.
 
Just to add a bit more mystery to the mix, I have found probate granted on a will for
Joseph Baker of 170 Summer Lane who died on 5th September 1928(records have no deaths
of a Joseph Baker in this area around that time only the one in December , could the date/month be incorrect) Probate was granted to Walter Woollerton, gentleman Effects £542.

This Joseph Baker, a Butcher b Staffs is in summer lane in 1911 with wife Ellen who it says he married in 1893.(married 18 yrs)
In 1881 Avon street Yardley
Joseph Baker age 35 a butcher born Staffs with Wife Elizabeth age 40 b Shrops and son Robert Morris Baker b 1873

? would this Joseph be buried with his 1st wife?
 
Last edited:
Thanks Alberta, I've been looking for Joseph & Elizabeth for some time now and have been chatting to my friend who's also looking. We came to the conclusion that the Summer Lane Joseph didn't strike us as someone who would have enough money to sponsor a stained glass window in the church. Robert Morris Baker moved to Sutton, where he became a gardener, but not until at least two years after his mother was buried. The grave would also have been an expensive one. It still puzzles me about the address on the gravestone too.

I don't know what to make of the death/dates you mention. It all seems very strange.

Mike found another Joseph Baker in Edgbaston so I'm looking at him know but it's just as hard as the one above.
 
There's a marriage registered for a Joseph Baker and Ellen Bodin, Sep qtr 1892 Aston. As it's so soon after the death of Elizabeth it could be his address is still the same. If it turns out to be the right one.
 
Thanks for that MWS. I've looked for the marriage you suggested but I think it's probably at the Register Office as I haven't found a church service yet.
 
Hi Lady P, about the wealth of Joseph the butcher, from census entries it says own account so he didn't work for anyone else.Also he left over £500 which is about £32,000 today.
Joseph Baker married Elizabeth Morris in 1869 Aston
 
Alberta
I think you are being a little conservative in your estimate of the value today. I know different tables give wildly different equivalences, and different items increase or decrease in value considerably, but £32,000 divided by 500 is an increase of 64 times. Now when I was young a pint of bitter in the south in a not cheap pub was about 1shilling and 10 pence (about 9 new pence) Multiply that by 64 and you get £5.76, not too far from what London pubs charge today. so I reckon over the period concerned the value of the £500 then would be a bit more than £32,000
 
Either way it definitely puts a different perspective on Joseph's income. Thank you both very much for that information, it's a great help.
 
Alberta, just checked on FmP and it lists their marriage under 'Civil Marriage & Divorce' which presumably means a Register Office wedding so no added information. However, I'm more confident that this is the right couple than I was before. I there any way of finding the details of a civil marriage do you know please?
 
LadyP, I don't know of any other than to get the certificate
You can order it online from Birmingham register office website
The info you need when you get to the end of the form is is ( Aston, 1892 Sept quarter Volume 6d page 166)
My friend just ordered one they said it takes 15 days she got it in 3 days , I think about £12.

I wondered why Walter Woollerton dealt with the probate and not Josephs son Robert, perhaps he parted company with him somehow after his remarriage, he was a butcher like his father but changed jobs after his marriage and became a gardener.
Perhaps Walter was a friend or associate, he had a Bakery business in Coleshill street a very
profitable one I would imagine as at his death in 1937 he left £4750 ( about £320,000, in todays money)
 
Last edited:
The baptism of Joseph's and Ellen's eldest daughter appears to be on Ancestry - 1894 - it should list address on that. Unfortunately it's at St Stephen's, Newton Row so I suspect even if she wasn't born there (her sister's birthplace is listed as Summer Lane in 1911) it was probably after they moved to Summer Lane.
 
Alberta, my theory is also that Joseph and Robert became estranged although Robert was still a butcher in 1894 so this possibly didn't happen immediately after Joseph's marriage. Robert was 94 when he died and lived in the parish of St Michael's at Driffold Cottages opposite to what is now the Odeon in Sutton (or whatever its called now).

I'm reluctant to buy a certificate at this stage as I have a few more avenues to explore (probably more like cul-de-sacs than avenues!)

MWS , Baptism of Nellie Victoria, I followed this up and they were living at 164 Summer Lane in 1894 and then 181 in 1901 and 170 in 1911 (where he seems to have stayed until his death). I wonder if the houses were bigger in the moves?

Thank you both for this added information. Very helpful.
 
Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread. I'm very grateful.
I'll let you know if I ever find out the significance of 114, Victoria Road on Elizabeth's grave.
 
Lady Penelope said:
Alberta, my theory is also that Joseph and Robert became estranged although Robert was still a butcher in 1894 so this possibly didn't happen immediately after Joseph's marriage. Robert was 94 when he died and lived in the parish of St Michael's at Driffold Cottages opposite to what is now the Odeon in Sutton (or whatever its called now).

I'm reluctant to buy a certificate at this stage as I have a few more avenues to explore (probably more like cul-de-sacs than avenues!)

MWS , Baptism of Nellie Victoria, I followed this up and they were living at 164 Summer Lane in 1894 and then 181 in 1901 and 170 in 1911 (where he seems to have stayed until his death). I wonder if the houses were bigger in the moves?

Thank you both for this added information. Very helpful.
Click to expand...
I lived in 3 Driffold Cottages in 1963 for a few years. My parents rented it for a couple of years. I don't know who the landlord was. They must have a really interesting history. I think they were all sold together and converted in later years.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top