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Electric Trams

I looked at the location of the tram and concluded that it wasn't the Lickey Rd terminus although I have not yet been able to find an alternative location.

In my pic there are overhead wires apparently shown on the right in the pic which don't seem to tie in with D.J.Nortons pic. In that pic they would be going left (in the pic) into the Austin Motor Works,

The note in post#210 regarding the table on the Robert Darlaston site mentions 'short workings' which suggests a terminus before the extension to Rednal and Rubery.
Routes 35 and 69 became short workings of the 70 and 71 in 1924/26 on extension to Rednal and Rubery.

I noted that the mileage of the 69 route is 5.56 miles but the mileage to Rednal and Rubery is 8.0/8.19 miles.
 
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I have amended my post, 660, as it was inaccurate.
One place where trams separated was Pebble MIll Road, but from memory that was a flat area and not hilly as seen in the photo. This is the beginning, from the city, of the reserved track sections.
 
The puzzling thing here is that the tram shelters are very similar to the ones In Lickey Road. Most tram stops on the route, as far as I can see and remember did not have shelters. The Norton photo does show a hill and whilst the photo crops up a few places, if there is only one master copy, and that was reversed by mistake, then things might fit in place a little better?
I have had a very tiring day, including shopping, so I am closing down now. Maybe an answer will be here next time I look in. ;)
 
Radiorails said:
The puzzling thing here is that the tram shelters are very similar to the ones In Lickey Road. Most tram stops on the route, as far as I can see and remember did not have shelters. The Norton photo does show a hill and whilst the photo crops up a few places, if there is only one master copy, and that was reversed by mistake, then things might fit in place a little better?
I have had a very tiring day, including shopping, so I am closing down now. Maybe an answer will be here next time I look in. ;)
Click to expand...
I don't think the DJ Norton pic is reversed.
Looking at the pic in #659 there is either a crossing in front of the tram, or track comes in from the right curving to join the route in front of the 766 tram. I cannot recognise the location of the tram at present ... reminds me of the No 8 bus location puzzle ... :rolleyes:
For interest here is an aerial pic of the Rednal/Rubery junction dated 1935 and two trams are in the pic.
RednalEubery1935.jpg
 
In the light of day I realised that the tracks in the Norton photo were correct. The tracks to Rubery did go as the photo shows. The only shelters I saw in the video was a post WW2 scaffold type, the Rednal terminus and I think Pebble Mill junction. The houses do not seem to fit the Lickey Road location.
This is curious; so far the only substantial shelters on the Rednal/Rubery routes that I have found were at Navigation Street, both outer terminals and Lickey Road.
 
You have also nailed the location of Longbridge Waterworks. An incredibly attractive waterworks building, sadly now gone.
 
Morturn.
Some better photos of the Longbridge pumping station are at

Longbridge Pumping Station (plus Others)

Thanks for the picture of Longbridge Pumping Station to OldM in the Thread “Then and Now.” https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/then-now.44065/page-22#post-623098 The first question to ask is just when was it built? If you look at the ePapers Repository for Birmingham...
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk
 
oldMohawk said:
Two schoolboys wait by tram 766 on the 69 route at a terminus in Northfield.
View attachment 136489
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Picture looks late post-war from tram fleet numbers plain gold, not shaded; tram itself has the full all blue post war lower deck fleet colour; it is obviously on a housing estate, taken in autumn or spring (the trees), presumably a terminus, although why is the shelter not on the pavement? There are three wires overhead, perhaps someone could explain the two outside wires and what is the wire that comes down from the left hand outside wire. There do not appear to be tracks on the left hand side of the road. Finally that is quite a large shelter, so was this a stub route and terminus for route 69, because certainly there is a tram rote continuing to the right.
Just about to send it, when I noticed the flyer in the window at the front and what could be one on the tram shelter. Were these advices on the forthcoming closure of the route.....what was the actual destination and terminus of the route and why aren't those little boys getting on the tram.

bob
 
I've looked at old maps, Google Earth etc and not yet found the location of the terminus pic shown in #659. Looking again at the pic there appears to be a grassed area with metal fencing round it and just inside the fence is a fairly tall object ... memorial stone maybe ... or maybe not.

The 69 terminus appears to be shown on the Bristol Rd route see attached tramway map but I'm starting to think that the tram might not be on the Bristol Rd. The terminus is on a hill leading up to a road over which there is a road going down hill and this road has a large 10 bar telephone pole usually found on main roads.
Tram_map_1930.jpg
 
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Indeed the tram livery is post 1946 and the signage may mean one or two things: closure of the system (usually a large poster I believe) or arrangements regarding a forthcoming bank holiday.
The two outside wires are I am sure, suspension wires, which hold the main traction wire in place. It certainly doesn't seem to be Northfield where the 69 terminated - there was no dual carriageway there, it was further away. It is not Rubery, although Rubery had similar substantial shelters.
It is not Lickey Road, Longbridge, near the Austin and pumping station. No houses close by plus the tram overhead wires go to the right to Rubery at that place and not the left as in the photo.
So, my final choice is that it is Rednal. Rednal had substantial shelters for daily use. There were others in the loop but that was for storage and bank holiday times when trams ran every 30 minutes or so. However, the entrance to the loop possible explains the overhead wires going to the left. There was an short incline at Rednal and pre-war houses. Todays photos show newer houses nearer and more trees.
One more thing that suggests Rednal to me is the building, with part of the roof shown above the shelter roof and to the left of the upper deck of the tram also near the four globed lamp. That building is probably the Chinese restaurant that is still there.
Why the car route number shows 69 is anybodies guess. Maybe the front one was showing something different, like 70 or DEPOT ONLY?
Hopefully this could be the answer.
 
Radiorails said:
Indeed the tram livery is post 1946 and the signage may mean one or two things: closure of the system (usually a large poster I believe) or arrangements regarding a forthcoming bank holiday.
The two outside wires are I am sure, suspension wires, which hold the main traction wire in place. It certainly doesn't seem to be Northfield where the 69 terminated - there was no dual carriageway there, it was further away. It is not Rubery, although Rubery had similar substantial shelters.
It is not Lickey Road, Longbridge, near the Austin and pumping station. No houses close by plus the tram overhead wires go to the right to Rubery at that place and not the left as in the photo.
So, my final choice is that it is Rednal. Rednal had substantial shelters for daily use. There were others in the loop but that was for storage and bank holiday times when trams ran every 30 minutes or so. However, the entrance to the loop possible explains the overhead wires going to the left. There was an short incline at Rednal and pre-war houses. Todays photos show newer houses nearer and more trees.
One more thing that suggests Rednal to me is the building, with part of the roof shown above the shelter roof and to the left of the upper deck of the tram also near the four globed lamp. That building is probably the Chinese restaurant that is still there.
Why the car route number shows 69 is anybodies guess. Maybe the front one was showing something different, like 70 or DEPOT ONLY?
Hopefully this could be the answer.
Click to expand...
You could be right. In a pic I put in #278 (see below) there is a tram standing by a shelter at Rednal and there are low railings round a grassed area. The object inside the railings I mentioned in #672 shows as a bundy clock visible in the pic below.
oldMohawk said:
This pic is dated 3rd Sept 1950 and shows tramcar 551 standing at a quiet looking Rednal terminus.
Rednal3_9_1950.jpg
index.php
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linked forum pic only visible if logged in
 
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551, a 1913/24 car lasting until the early fifties. Post 1946 style but with older numerals. Well they did have stock to use up.I
It seems to have the same small poster in the top deck as the previous photo. No doubts about the location on this photo. :D
 
oldMohawk said:
The house I've marked with a yellow arrow in the pic below must be the house on the right in the #659 photo. The five blocks of housing in front were built at a later date. It's amazing how 'foreshortening' in old photos can give a completely different view.
View attachment 136524
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Back in the day that was the last house, and just to add it was police housing,. At about 1.15 in the video looks like the entrance to the men's bathroom,. now of course a restaurant, the trams came up the hill then turned left and made the circle round the island coming up to face down the Lickey Road towards Longbridge and the toilets would be on the left and a big clock stood there
 
oldMohawk said:
I've looked at old maps, Google Earth etc and not yet found the location of the terminus pic shown in #659. Looking again at the pic there appears to be a grassed area with metal fencing round it and just inside the fence is a fairly tall object ... memorial stone maybe ... or maybe not.

The 69 terminus appears to be shown on the Bristol Rd route see attached tramway map but I'm starting to think that the tram might not be on the Bristol Rd. The terminus is on a hill leading up to a road over which there is a road going down hill and this road has a large 10 bar telephone pole usually found on main roads.
View attachment 136516
Click to expand...
What a brilliant map this is, but I notice it is Dutch? I recognise Tramlijn Regulier as Regular service, but do you have a translation of the other legends? Interestingly enough it is far superior to any of the maps in any of the multitude of books on Birmingham trams that I have, all the maps there are either piecemeal or a mass of blurred lines. I don't suppose there is one like this for buses. What it does show is what a massive tram network Birmingham possessed, strangely enough with no city centre connections or cross city workings. It is a point to wonder as to how much such a network would cost today and how long it would take to build and judging by the time the Metro line is taking it would probably be obsolete before it was even finished. Yes rattely and old they might have been but a trip by tram was an adventure to us youngsters, especially if you got the open balcony ones ad you could always do your good deed and put the seats the right way round for the next journey (even if you had not reached the terminus).

Bob
 
Before the city ran its own tramway system many private concerns had operated in Birmingham and the Black Country. The Smethwick, Oldbury and Dudley routes became under city operation I believe in 1928. These lines ceased in 1939 replaced by BCT and B&MMO buses.
Wednesbury, West Bromwich, Great Bridge and Dudley were initially, 1909, extended by agreement with Handsworth council but in 1911 Handsworth as incorporated into Birmingham making it now a legal basis. In 1924, at the request of West Bromwich, BCT took over most of their system. Ceasing in 1939 and replaced by buses, BCT and West Bromwich.
West Bromwich, being a neighbour of Walsall wanted trolley buses but Birmingham had other ideas as diesel buses were the thinking of BCT then and in future. The South Staffordshire Tramways were involved in routes and those in the Black Country.
This is only skimming the surface of a very involved tramway network. There are posts in the early Forum days which might interest.
 
Radiorails said:
Before the city ran its own tramway system many private concerns had operated in Birmingham and the Black Country. The Smethwick, Oldbury and Dudley routes became under city operation I believe in 1928. These lines ceased in 1939 replaced by BCT and B&MMO buses.
Wednesbury, West Bromwich, Great Bridge and Dudley were initially, 1909, extended by agreement with Handsworth council but in 1911 Handsworth as incorporated into Birmingham making it now a legal basis. In 1924, at the request of West Bromwich, BCT took over most of their system. Ceasing in 1939 and replaced by buses, BCT and West Bromwich.
West Bromwich, being a neighbour of Walsall wanted trolley buses but Birmingham had other ideas as diesel buses were the thinking of BCT then and in future. The South Staffordshire Tramways were involved in routes and those in the Black Country.
This is only skimming the surface of a very involved tramway network. There are posts in the early Forum days which might interest.
Click to expand...
Radiorails………...Thank you for this information!
 
Radiorails said:
The puzzling thing here is that the tram shelters are very similar to the ones In Lickey Road. Most tram stops on the route, as far as I can see and remember did not have shelters. The Norton photo does show a hill and whilst the photo crops up a few places, if there is only one master copy, and that was reversed by mistake, then things might fit in place a little better?
I have had a very tiring day, including shopping, so I am closing down now. Maybe an answer will be here next time I look in. ;)
Click to expand...
You can reverse a photo but any writing is also reversed which has not happened on the tram advert, regards, John.
 
Only nine cross arms there, which would rule out "Great Barr". :D

753 built 1928 lasted until closure of the Bristol Road routes in 1952.
Those of us who remember the warm sunny days of summers, either side of 1950 and who travelled to the Lickeys by tram probably remember it as a great experience. Probably not realised at the time, but I am sure, many BHF Members have since reminisced about it. The leafy trees, in the dual carriageway sections, were almost reminiscent of a train journey, moreover the trams usually got up good speeds on those reserved track sections, once past Northfield, as there were not too many stops. The area still had a rural feel to it. A speed of up to 40 MPH, on the narrow gauge of Birmingham gave an exhilarating ride as the car rocked from side to side. I believe there was a vertical movement but that was masked by the sideways movements somewhat. The inexperienced, or nervous, might think that a fast moving tram heading downhill might strike one coming uphill in the opposite direction, but I never heard that it ever happened. On Bank Holidays and busy holiday time Sundays the trams to the Lickeys ran very frequently, such was the popularity of a day out there. Trams were usually well loaded and as some other trams, from other parts of the city, were drafted in to cope with the extra passengers, it became possible - if you timed it well, or were just plain lucky - to get on one of the older trams that had open balconies on the upper deck. It was a favoured place, I can assure you, if you never rode one of these type cars to the Lickeys it was something to remember. You had to board in Navigation Street as any stop on route would mean the balcony was usually occupied. Simple pleasures, in far simpler times. I guess a train ride through the Channel Tunnel might be something to remember nowadays.
 
Tram and bus crews chat by the Bundy clock in this picture of Rednal on a sunny day in 1952. Trams are being replaced by buses so maybe they were talking about the changes. Trips to the Lickey Hills for kids will never be quite be the same on buses ... :)
RImage12.jpg

And these days but it wasn't a sunny day ...
red2.jpg

The link below opens Streetview ... have a scroll look around, they left a small length of old tram track.
goo.gl

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
goo.gl goo.gl
 
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oldMohawk said:
Tram 753 nears the Rednal terminus on a sunny afternoon in the early 1950s. Children chat on the front upstairs bench seat. Multi-bar telegraph poles still in use in the 1950s.
View attachment 136680
Click to expand...
So this must have been taken at the very top of Lickey road just before the terminus when the dual carriage way ended, this is the steepest part of the road and if you look to the right of the motor cycle combo unit the grass is Cofton Park behind the fence.

The road goes from a dual carriage way down to a 2 lane road at the bus terminus , and that is where the Birmingham City limit sign is
 
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