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Curzon Street Railway Station

Thanks to Heartland who posted this plan from Richard Foster's Book.
Curzon Street plan.png

I now understand the relationship between the London & Biringham Railway and the Grand Junction Railway stations. I had assumed the Goods station on the other side of Curzen Street to have been the former GJR station. Also this makes sense of the photos of the GJR station which are on the internet.
 
The map, by Mike, (Post 205) is interesting as it shows the area and the new train station and depot which was only a couple of years old. Neither, it appears, were, at the time of construction, in Curzon Street.
 
Radiorails said:
The map, by Mike, (Post 205) is interesting as it shows the area and the new train station and depot which was only a couple of years old. Neither, it appears, were, at the time of construction, in Curzon Street.
Click to expand...

And the HS2 station will not be in Curzon Street either. The front entrance will be in Moor Street next to the existing Moor Street station with the two concourses connected by a foot bridge over the Snow Hill lines. This is a point I have been making all along. The name Curzon Street for the HS2 was a whim by Andrew Adonis, the Transport Secretary in Gordon Brown's government.
1584605729469.png
 
DavidGrain said:
And the HS2 station will not be in Curzon Street either. The front entrance will be in Moor Street next to the existing Moor Street station with the two concourses connected by a foot bridge over the Snow Hill lines. This is a point I have been making all along. The name Curzon Street for the HS2 was a whim by Andrew Adonis, the Transport Secretary in Gordon Brown's government.
View attachment 143103
Click to expand...
I was of the impression that the platforms and concourse of the new station would be behind and to the side the old station structure including the area where the Eagle and Tun now stands. If things are to be centred on Moor St why all the site clearance around Curzon St and compulsory purchase of E&T? Confusion setting in...
 
JohnJames said:
I was of the impression that the platforms and concourse of the new station would be behind and to the side the old station structure including the area where the Eagle and Tun now stands. If things are to be centred on Moor St why all the site clearance around Curzon St and compulsory purchase of E&T? Confusion setting in...
Click to expand...
Platforms need to be 400 metres long (EU Regs, don't ask!) so will reach to old Curzon Street site. This is why New Street could not be used even if it had capacity.
 
I also believe it allows for some expansion at a future date. Given rail travel has been steadily increasing most rail strategy is long term, it isn't something done quickly.
 
JohnJames said:
I was of the impression that the platforms and concourse of the new station would be behind and to the side the old station structure including the area where the Eagle and Tun now stands. If things are to be centred on Moor St why all the site clearance around Curzon St and compulsory purchase of E&T? Confusion setting in...
Click to expand...

This station is going to be HUGE, running way behind Moor St station, even past the Woodman pub and the old Curzon St station.

While the design for the station has not been finalized this image gives an idea of how long it is going to be. You can clearly see it goes past the Woodman pub and past the old Curzon St station.

The new station also goes OVER New Canal Street (the Woodman pub and the old Curzon Street station are either side of this road).

The tram line is planned to come down from Bull St and go under the HS2 station on its way to Digbeth. You can just see this in the image, the blue tram going under the station.

HS2 Station.jpg
 
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guilbert53 said:
This station is going to be HUGE, running way behind Moor St station, even past the Woodman pub and the old Curzon St station.

While the design for the station has not been finalized this image gives an idea of how long it is going to be. You can clearly see it goes past the Woodman pub and past the old Curzon St station.

The new station also goes OVER New Canal Street (the Woodman pub and the old Curzon Street station are either side of this road).

The tram line is planned to come down from Bull St and go under the HS2 station on its way to Digbeth. You can just see this in the image, the blue tram going under the station.

View attachment 143107
Click to expand...
Fascinating stuff. Moor St must be a good half mile at least from the old station opposite the Woodman. I had no idea of the ultimate size of this development. It does not appear to centre on the Curzon St site at all as I had thought.
 
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I have seen before - and believe posted that 'photo' here. It clearly shows the Woodman. I wonder why there is the suggestion of demolition? It is close to the original station building so needs not to be removed as far as I can see.
 
The trains will be doing 80mph as they enter the station. Then even after the buffers there will be a safety zone in case of overrun, then the concourse and then the front entrance opening onto a square in Moor Street. There will be several entrances with pick up and drop off and the taxi ranks. The use of the Curzon Strreet name has caused no end of confusion in people's minds.

I have even heard 'experts' say that you will be able to get the tram from New Street station to Curzon Street but I have pointed out that you will have to change in Bull Street so it might be quicker to walk. We shall see if the 'single station' idea turns out to be the myth that I think it will be.
 
DavidGrain said:
I have even heard 'experts' say that you will be able to get the tram from New Street station to Curzon Street but I have pointed out that you will have to change in Bull Street so it might be quicker to walk. We shall see if the 'single station' idea turns out to be the myth that I think it will be.
Click to expand...

The tram line currently is just one "line" (Wolverhampton to Broad Street return) so all trams just go back and froward up and down this one line.

However once we get the extra "leg" down to the HS2 station and then on to Digbeth I assume SOME trams will go Broad St, New Street station, Corporation Street, then turn down Bull St then down Albert Street to the HS2 station and then on to Digbeth.

So people getting ON the tram outside New St station will get the choice to get a tram to Wolverhampton OR get a tram to Digbeth via the HS2 station.

So they wont need to change at Bull Street.
 
guilbert53 said:
The tram line currently is just one "line" (Wolverhampton to Broad Street return) so all trams just go back and froward up and down this one line.

However once we get the extra "leg" down to the HS2 station and then on to Digbeth I assume SOME trams will go Broad St, New Street station, Corporation Street, then turn down Bull St then down Albert Street to the HS2 station and then on to Digbeth.

So people getting ON the tram outside New St station will get the choice to get a tram to Wolverhampton OR get a tram to Digbeth via the HS2 station.

So they wont need to change at Bull Street.
Click to expand...

Thank you I see then new map does show a triangular junction at Bull Street and Corporation Street although originally they mentioned only trams coming from the Wolverhampton direction serving Curzon Street. However, the Statutory Order (which is only in draft form on the Midland Metro Alliance website) does not be more specific than just saying a junction with the existing line.
 
DavidGrain said:
Platforms need to be 400 metres long (EU Regs, don't ask!) so will reach to old Curzon Street site. This is why New Street could not be used even if it had capacity.
Click to expand...
Apparently that is the length of European trains and we have to follow suit (for now), there seems to be a question still to be answered as to what length HS2 trains will be, but 400m trains (Eurostar) where in the original plan and they can carry 1100 passengers so I have been told
Bob
 
Radiorails said:
I have seen before - and believe posted that 'photo' here. It clearly shows the Woodman. I wonder why there is the suggestion of demolition? It is close to the original station building so needs not to be removed as far as I can see.
Click to expand...
I don't believe the Woodman is coming down but it seems that the Eagle & Tun is. From the look of the image this pub falls within the new station's footprint.
 
ellbrown said:
The Woodman is safe. Its The Eagle & Tun that will sadly be demolished. Its boarded up last time I walked past it the other week.
Click to expand...
Thanks. As I haven't been in the area since 1954- and was too young to frequent pubs anyway - I was confused which was the one threatened with demolition. It complements the other older structures nicely
 
This was summer last year. Cyclist going past The Woodman. Curzon Street Station was behind me on New Canal Street.



This view from April 2017 towards Millennium Point.

 
I have been looking for the plan of the HS2 station that I thought I had made a copy of but I can't find it.

However to show the size of the new station see this map. The HS2 station is shown in red and the existing three stations are shown in blue
1584645038133.png
Map taken from the Scribble Maps website.
www.scribblemaps.com

Birmingham Curzon Street HS2 Footprint

Location of Birmingham Curzon Street in RED. Location of current mainline stations in BLUE.
www.scribblemaps.com
 
I am waiting to see if those looking at the locomotive shed, find the underground coke storage and may be the 18 inch gauge railway that brought coke from the narrow boats.

That the early London & Birmingham locomotives burnt coke rather than coal was the result of early locomotive boiler needs. The supply of coke was then expensive, however. The LBR built their own coke ovens at Camden, 18 of them, to burn coal from Durham, brought by coastal shipping and the Regents Canal. Curzon Street had coke delivered by the boat load. Part had originated in the North West and part from North Staffordshire.

The LBR had 3 main locomotive depots, Curzon Street, Wolverton and Camden.
 
DavidGrain said:
The trains will be doing 80mph as they enter the station. Then even after the buffers there will be a safety zone in case of overrun, then the concourse and then the front entrance opening onto a square in Moor Street. There will be several entrances with pick up and drop off and the taxi ranks. The use of the Curzon Strreet name has caused no end of confusion in people's minds.

I have even heard 'experts' say that you will be able to get the tram from New Street station to Curzon Street but I have pointed out that you will have to change in Bull Street so it might be quicker to walk. We shall see if the 'single station' idea turns out to be the myth that I think it will be.
Click to expand...
I think 80 mph entering the station is a bit OTT
 
I think also that 80 mph is a high speed. Yet trains do from time to time enter a station, which they are stopping at, with speed. In the 1990's there was a concern about this, I recall.
 
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