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Curzon Street Railway Station

DavidGrain

master brummie
Thanks Ell, I did not attempt photos when I went past last week. Facebook have blocked a post I put on there with a link to the BBC news report of the finding but they are blocking a number of things at the moment because of a bug in their computer systems.
 

Lady Penelope

master brummie
Thanks for the pictures ellbrown. We usually manage to keep updated from the train window but have decided not to go on public transport at the moment. I especially liked the cobbles.
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
I assumed that Curzon Street was named after Lord Curzon who was considered for appointment as prime minister. So I looked up dates and cannot see any justification for naming a street after him before about 1906 when he returned from being Vice-Roy of India. As the street dates from before that time it is very likely that there was a change of name for the street.
The view shown is Ackerman's view of 1843. In fact the 1839 map shows a very short length marked Curzon st on the far right over the bridge, with the rest named Duddeston St. (I will post a scan shortly),. By the time of the 1855 Kellys there is no Duddeston St, just Curzon St. I would suggest that the most likely candidate was one of his ancestors, probably Nathaniel Curzon, 1st Baron Scarsdale, who developed Kedleston Hall.
 

Heartland

master brummie
There are some interesting views of the excavation, which it seems is still ongoing. The shed was probably taken down in the 1850's and is not shown on the general Piggot Smiths map of that period, although the date of that map is questionable- late 1850's to late 1860s. An early Piggot Smith version, which was at one time available from the Central library shows the following.
 

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JudiM

master brummie
I guess it depends where it is in relation to the trains lines and station. If it is under where the rails go that come in and out the station they wont be able to do that "glass floor" option.

I was up in that area on Sunday (in the rain) and noticed that part of the tarmac had gone in Curzon Street near that station, and underneath were these cobbles. I guess there may be cobbles under tarmac in many roads in Birmingham.

View attachment 143042

I also noticed on the old map on the hoardings provided by HS2 that Curzon Street was called Duddeston Street. When did it become Curzon Street?

View attachment 143043

And finally for old times sake, a photo of the said station

View attachment 143044l
They certainly found some in Victoria Square when the started the tram line works -

 

JohnJames

master brummie
An account of the station from 1979. It mentions the buildings that were demolished including the Queens Hotel. Viv.

View attachment 141449
The huge "Aluminum Shed" pictured was the old BR parcels depot.I worked there for a period during the mid seventies when it was a thriving place. Indirectly this job led me into a rewarding and much travelled career in Global Logistics that took me through to retirement. I have very fond memories of this time in my working life, some of which included down time when trains were delayed spent in the Woodman pub just opposite. Nobody seemed to mind when we returned to work having had three or four pints.
 

Heartland

master brummie
The Woodman and the Eagle & Tun were both popular for workers the British Rail Parcels Depot. NCL staff were used as delivery drivers. The fuel tanks for the vehicles were there until recently, but suspect the latest excavations has led to their removal
 

ellbrown

ell brown on Flickr
Previously posted these on the HS2 thread. Some more views from the train last Saturday.

JCB's.



Piles of earth and a lot of rubble.



Just before Lawley Middleway towards the current WMFS HQ.



The HS2 sign from the train has moved to this side (near the Digbeth Branch Canal).

 

DavidGrain

master brummie
Thanks to Heartland who posted this plan from Richard Foster's Book.
Curzon Street plan.png

I now understand the relationship between the London & Biringham Railway and the Grand Junction Railway stations. I had assumed the Goods station on the other side of Curzen Street to have been the former GJR station. Also this makes sense of the photos of the GJR station which are on the internet.
 

Radiorails

master brummie
The map, by Mike, (Post 205) is interesting as it shows the area and the new train station and depot which was only a couple of years old. Neither, it appears, were, at the time of construction, in Curzon Street.
 

DavidGrain

master brummie
The map, by Mike, (Post 205) is interesting as it shows the area and the new train station and depot which was only a couple of years old. Neither, it appears, were, at the time of construction, in Curzon Street.

And the HS2 station will not be in Curzon Street either. The front entrance will be in Moor Street next to the existing Moor Street station with the two concourses connected by a foot bridge over the Snow Hill lines. This is a point I have been making all along. The name Curzon Street for the HS2 was a whim by Andrew Adonis, the Transport Secretary in Gordon Brown's government.
1584605729469.png
 

JohnJames

master brummie
And the HS2 station will not be in Curzon Street either. The front entrance will be in Moor Street next to the existing Moor Street station with the two concourses connected by a foot bridge over the Snow Hill lines. This is a point I have been making all along. The name Curzon Street for the HS2 was a whim by Andrew Adonis, the Transport Secretary in Gordon Brown's government.
View attachment 143103
I was of the impression that the platforms and concourse of the new station would be behind and to the side the old station structure including the area where the Eagle and Tun now stands. If things are to be centred on Moor St why all the site clearance around Curzon St and compulsory purchase of E&T? Confusion setting in...
 

DavidGrain

master brummie
I was of the impression that the platforms and concourse of the new station would be behind and to the side the old station structure including the area where the Eagle and Tun now stands. If things are to be centred on Moor St why all the site clearance around Curzon St and compulsory purchase of E&T? Confusion setting in...
Platforms need to be 400 metres long (EU Regs, don't ask!) so will reach to old Curzon Street site. This is why New Street could not be used even if it had capacity.
 

Radiorails

master brummie
I also believe it allows for some expansion at a future date. Given rail travel has been steadily increasing most rail strategy is long term, it isn't something done quickly.
 

guilbert53

master brummie
I was of the impression that the platforms and concourse of the new station would be behind and to the side the old station structure including the area where the Eagle and Tun now stands. If things are to be centred on Moor St why all the site clearance around Curzon St and compulsory purchase of E&T? Confusion setting in...

This station is going to be HUGE, running way behind Moor St station, even past the Woodman pub and the old Curzon St station.

While the design for the station has not been finalized this image gives an idea of how long it is going to be. You can clearly see it goes past the Woodman pub and past the old Curzon St station.

The new station also goes OVER New Canal Street (the Woodman pub and the old Curzon Street station are either side of this road).

The tram line is planned to come down from Bull St and go under the HS2 station on its way to Digbeth. You can just see this in the image, the blue tram going under the station.

HS2 Station.jpg
 
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JohnJames

master brummie
This station is going to be HUGE, running way behind Moor St station, even past the Woodman pub and the old Curzon St station.

While the design for the station has not been finalized this image gives an idea of how long it is going to be. You can clearly see it goes past the Woodman pub and past the old Curzon St station.

The new station also goes OVER New Canal Street (the Woodman pub and the old Curzon Street station are either side of this road).

The tram line is planned to come down from Bull St and go under the HS2 station on its way to Digbeth. You can just see this in the image, the blue tram going under the station.

View attachment 143107
Fascinating stuff. Moor St must be a good half mile at least from the old station opposite the Woodman. I had no idea of the ultimate size of this development. It does not appear to centre on the Curzon St site at all as I had thought.
 
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Radiorails

master brummie
I have seen before - and believe posted that 'photo' here. It clearly shows the Woodman. I wonder why there is the suggestion of demolition? It is close to the original station building so needs not to be removed as far as I can see.
 

DavidGrain

master brummie
The trains will be doing 80mph as they enter the station. Then even after the buffers there will be a safety zone in case of overrun, then the concourse and then the front entrance opening onto a square in Moor Street. There will be several entrances with pick up and drop off and the taxi ranks. The use of the Curzon Strreet name has caused no end of confusion in people's minds.

I have even heard 'experts' say that you will be able to get the tram from New Street station to Curzon Street but I have pointed out that you will have to change in Bull Street so it might be quicker to walk. We shall see if the 'single station' idea turns out to be the myth that I think it will be.
 
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