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Copyright and posting images

Vivienne14

Vivienne14

Kentish Brummie Moderator
Staff member
Can anyone point me in the right direction please for general guidelines on the rules of copyright and posting images on BHF? I know copyright is a bit of a minefield, but are there any general guidelines available (in plain English) that will help us to decide whether we are able to post material? Or are we covered by the general copyright statement at the top of the BHF site? Many thanks. Viv.
 
Viv, I don't think you will be able to get a conclusive answer, the copyright rules are very complicated, both to understand and to comply with, they were initially written in days before the internet and other electronic devices and have not really been brought up to date.
Many will make it out to be a more serious crime than what it is, as a general rule on the forum post it if you feel happy with it, if anyone complains of the grounds of copyright and has sufficient proof then we will remove it. In most cases acknowledging the source of the material is sufficient to satisfy copyright holders.
There have only been a couple of times anything has been posted on BHF than anyone objected to on the grounds of copyright
The only copyright images we have any guidance on relates to images taken from subscription sites, (Ancestry, Find me Past, etc.) which we will remove.
If any member wishes to post images they feel may infringe copyright law then feel free to contact a moderator in the first instant.

Colin
 
Thanks for your advice Colin and Bernie. Shall have a look at the guidelines Bernie, thanks. Viv.
 
If there are any copyright issues, I will deal with them, as the owner of the site. It IS a minefield , but if we get any issues I will sort them out.
 
Just looking through Bernies URL..it says that the web is not considered as being in the 'public domain'...gosh, how much more public can world wide viewing be? Public Domain must mean something quite different.
 
postie said:
If there are any copyright issues, I will deal with them, as the owner of the site. It IS a minefield , but if we get any issues I will sort them out.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clear advice Postie, much appreciated. Viv.
 
Rupert said:
Just looking through Bernies URL..it says that the web is not considered as being in the 'public domain'...gosh, how much more public can world wide viewing be? Public Domain must mean something quite different.
Click to expand...

Public domain is a defined term, meaning "no one owns it or has copyright on it".

As this Wikipedia entry below says, the music of Beethoven and the words of Shakespeare are all in the public domain as copyright has expired.

But the music of the Beatles and the words of Dan Brown are not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain

As an example you can see the logo for many companies on the web (Tesco, Microsoft, BMW etc). So they are in the "public domain" in general terms, but it does not give you the right to copy their logo and put it on YOUR web site as they "own" this logo.

Disney own the copyright on their characters, so even though they are all over the web and therefore in the "public domain" they cant (legally) be used on any old web site. So if I made birthday cakes in the shape of Disney characters, and put images all over my web site of Disney characters, then Disney could tell me remove them off the web site.
 
Always treat Wikipedia with a big pinch of salt as it is maintained and updated by the general public.
 
I have quite a few old picture postcards of different areas of Birmingham some have Birmingham Public Libraries printed on the bottom. Would i be allowed to post these pictures on the forum ? FT.
 
Re: Copyrite

Yes, they would be fine to post as long as you leave the public library title on them.
Thank you very much for clarifying this point before posting.
 
I have located four images of bomb damage in nechells and sparkbrook , now the images are copyrighted to english heritage can i post them on the forum, also by me saving the images does that mean that i have downloaded them or just saved the image off the screen.
phil
 
hi phil..copyright is such a grey area..always has been always will be i guess..i think what most of us think is to post the pics you have found..we all do it..we are after all posting them on a history forum and not in it to make money out of them...as the notice says at the top of the page if we do breach the copywrite rules then the offending pic will be removed..this usually means that ownership of the original photo must be proved..i must have posted thousands of images and so far not had a problem..

lyn
 
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philbee said:
I have located four images of bomb damage in nechells and sparkbrook , now the images are copyrighted to english heritage can i post them on the forum, also by me saving the images does that mean that i have downloaded them or just saved the image off the screen.
phil
Click to expand...

I think you're OK if you give english heritage credit for the images and maybe leave a link back to their site.
 
Seems like good old common sense advice to me, after all,its not as if your trying to make money out of someone else’s work.

I have some websites using some my images, which I don’tmind as long as they credit the author.

I did come across a site that made such a fuss about copy writeimages, all written in big unfriendly bold type across the top of their site. Lowand behold, they had taken one of my images and were using it without any credit.

I did write them a very friendly email, inviting them tofollow their own copy write guidelines.
 
I my opinion once a photo has been posted to the web by a copyright owner, unless they disfigure the photo in some way they might as well abandon all claims of copyright. Surely that know that once published online they are going to be copied. I aways try not to post photos that I know to be copyright, because I believe a person is entitled to just reward fir their labours, but it does annoy me when I see two or three claims by different people who all they they have copyright on the same photo. Also how does one obtain copyright on a photo that is entitled anonymous.

Yes as been stated copyright is a very grey area in this modern age, one that I think needs resolving with some new laws or legal direction. I think this forum (and others) makes the best of things by offering to remove any submission that is proved to be in contravention of existing copyright laws. So the best bet is not to post anything to the web that makes a claim of copyright, unless it gives directions that it is acceptable to do so with an acknowledgement to the copyright holder.
 
I saw some Birmingham bomb damage photos on the IWM site and put links directly to each of their photos in a forum post here. If a site wants to 'protect' their photos then they can put watermarks across them.
 
agree with you there phil..when i say i have never had a problem with anything i have ever posted i forgot about one i posted about 3 years back..wont say which photo but someone messaged me to say i should not have posted it because they had the original...i said can you please prove this as i believe i know who does have it..i received no reply...anyhow i did remove the pic while i was sorting it out...a few days later i was able to see the original for myself and was told by the owner to put the photo back on the forum which i did do...and the moral of this story is if someone lays claim to having an original photograph always make sure ownership can be be
proven by them..

lyn
 
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it is and you do dave...:encouragement: it just really gets to me sometimes the way some people are so protective over old pics of birmingham.(not talking about personal family ones) in the main most folk are not selfish at all and are most happy to share what they have with forums such as this one for which we are so grateful as they give so much pleasure to us..its quite simple really..if some folk dont want collectors such as myself to save anything we find then dont put them on the net..

lyn
 
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The copyrights issue is one that will go on forever, I received this email and replied that although some images MAY be acedited to the complainaint, most of his images are Birmingham city library images who clearly state that images must not be used for profit.

Good Morning

John Houghton has spoken to me about the pictures you are using on your website.

We are not happy that you have taken pictures out of Amberley published books without seeking permission.

Sarah Parker
Senior Publisher

 
If everyone copyrighted every image they took, nobody would share anything and the world would be a sad place.
All pictures should be available to share and as long as no one's making money out of them then so be it.
If someone went to great trouble to get a picture then give them credit for it under the picture. Simple.

I've seen some great pictures on this site and thanks for the memories they evoke.
If you've got a pic you dont want to share mark it effectively so it is obvious to all.
Then go get your middle name changed to "humbug" :) (joking)
 
Stephen0002002 said:
If everyone copyrighted every image they took, nobody would share anything and the world would be a sad place.
All pictures should be available to share and as long as no one's making money out of them then so be it.
If someone went to great trouble to get a picture then give them credit for it under the picture. Simple.

I've seen some great pictures on this site and thanks for the memories they evoke.
If you've got a pic you dont want to share mark it effectively so it is obvious to all.
Then go get your middle name changed to "humbug" :) (joking)
Click to expand...

cant add much to that stephen...just about sums up my feelings..:encouragement:

lyn
 
As an alternative to copyrighted images, you might want to take a look at terms and conditions for Creative Commons licences. (see https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/08/creative-commons-images-and-you/ ) these are generally pretty reasonable conditions for posting anything. If you post something you should say what it's called, whose it is, and where you got it from - or, at least, as much of that as you know. That should cut down on a lot of copyright theft and deal with a few disputes.
 
I have took onboard the comments given and to hell with it i have posted photos under a new thread "BOMB DAMAGE PHOTOS"
Phil
 
I think that's the right move Phil - largely because I love look in at old photos - and where is the problem as long as the pic is credited to the taker/owner?
Also, as has been mentioned, if people really don't want their pics copied, get them watermarked so they won't copy, as the school photos are!
Sue
 
Hope someone can advise me. I have a photograph which was printed in the Birmingham Mail about 1963. Will it be OK to scan it and post it here? It was taken by a B M photographer so it would have been their copyright then but how long do these things last for?

Any help much appreciated

Regards from Redruth

Arnold
 
Hi Arnold,
They have a copyright but this is a non-commercial website and there are already BM pics on it. It is best to give the BM a mention in posts. There are a lot of scanned BM pics in the post below ...

old evening mail pics.....

Hi Astoness I will get back to you on the ' Bruce ' connection. can you tell me when this photo was taken and is it near Lichfield Road. Many Thanks
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk
 
This has always been a murky area, Arnold. Different companies have different terms defining the use of their material and many are generous and permit republication of copyright material for non-commercial purposes. But you would need to go through the small print in each case to be certain. On the other hand, the rise of Facebook seems to have given some people the feeling that anything they see on screen is fair game and can be republished by themselves, without the slightest acknowledgement, so that then they can sit back and enjoy the glow of all the OMGs and WOWs.

My own policy has always been to try to use common sense. And courtesy. Am I using the image for strictly non-commercial purposes? Is the original provider likely to have a real, legitimate objection to the way I am using the material? Could I be damaging their interests in any way? Has it been used and reused so often that it is almost in the public domain anyway? Does it come from a possibly hard-nosed U.S. corporate image source who may well protect their interests aggressively (in which case, keep well clear)? Do I remember that the company – and possibly the individual – has put a lot of time and effort and even money into making this image available to me?

So far, this has stood me in good stead with regard to anything I have put online in my non-Forum activities (touching wood!). As oldMohawk suggests, better to make a mention of the Birmingham Mail in this case. And not only safer, but just common courtesy.

We are not very good on this Forum at acknowledging sources (although rather better than Facebook). We should really try to do better: it's courteous; it might just deflect the fury of someone who has seen his or her images stolen yet again without the least acknowledgement; and it's also useful information to anyone who is interested and may wish to pursue a subject further using that source.

All my personal attitude and not official Forum advice! But no real problem with your photo.......

Chris
 
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