CLIFFORD BROTHERS (bigamy or not?)

[Lady Penelope]

I have a puzzle and I'm hoping that someone can stop me going round in circles please.

Charles Arthur Clifford, known as Arthur was born in 1903 followed by his brother Archie in 1905. They both appear on the 1911 census in Aston. On Boxing Day 1924 Arthur appears to marry Alice Clark at Aston Parish church.

On the Electoral Register the following year Arthur is living with his mother Laura in Dartmouth Street and continues to live apart from Alice who on later registers is living with Archie at the home of her parents, Herbert and Alice Clark in Waterworks Street. In 1927 he is on the Electoral register living at 210 Aston Road. This is next to the fish shop at 211 which his parents ran when he was born.

There is no record of a divorce as far as I can see for Arthur and Alice and Arthur marries again? in 1930 on the 21st April at the Park Lane Hall in Park Lane, Aston Manor. His condition is 'Batchelor'.

I'd really like to know who was married to who? Did Archie use his brother's name to marry, if so why? I can't find another marriage for him.
If he did marry in his brother's name was Arthur's 'second' marriage bigamous.

The only other scenario I can come up with is that Arthur did marry Alice and then she left him for Archie.

I overheard someone in the family say that Archie was a rogue and had a criminal record but this may not be true.

Any ideas would be welcome please.

 

[Lady Penelope]

A little bit more information: There is a family tree on Ancestry which has a totally different family attached.
Just found Archie in 1945 on the Electoral Register living in Dunvegan Road, Erdington with his 'wife' and what appear to be two children. I won't name them as they may have children who are still alive.

A further thought is that in 1924 Archie would have been under age so may not have had his mother's permission to marry.

 

[MWS]

Are the witnesses family members for the first marriage?

There is a possible child, Kenneth A Clifford, reg Dec 1925. 1939 register lists Archie and Alice with one closed record. I wonder who his father is listed as.

 

[Lady Penelope]

That's a point MWS. I was hoping that there was a baptism but I can't find one. Kenneth is living with them in 1945 on the Electoral Register. The bride's father signed as witness along with a Mabel Barney but I don't know who she is. I'll look for her.
Here is the marriage certificate and the middle name of the groom looks odd.

 

[Alberta]

I thnk there maybe a clue to the fact that Archie used his brothers name on the wedding certificate but his own occupation.
In 1939 records Archie or Archibald as he has suddenly become says he is self employed as a Roofer, Tiler, Slater etc and Charles Arthur is a Shopkeeper (Eating house.) and the occupation Builder sounds more like Archie.

 

[MWS]

Fifteen years is long time, they both could have had the same occupation in 1924.

Do/did you need to prove who you are to get married? It just seems a bit of an extreme lie, why would you just not say your parents were dead if you needed their permission?

Is the signature on Charles Arthur's 'second' marriage similar to the one on the 'first'.

 

[Lady Penelope]

Arthur was a roofer until he had an accident and fell which was when he opened a cafe.
Unfortunately the second marriage certificate is a copy not the original so is of no use in this instance. Darn it!
I keep trying to remember whether I ever saw Arthur's signature.
I think Mabel is a dead end as she lived in the same street as the Clarks so was probably just a friend.

 

[MWS]

Kenneth's birth certificate is probably your best bet. Unless he married.

There's an incoming passengers record for a Kenneth Archie Clifford b1926 arriving in Liverpool 1950 from Canada. Along with Archie, Alice and an Irene Rosa, Kenneth's wife?

Which still doesn't answer the question who married Alice in 1924 and if it was Archie why lie.

 

[Alberta]

The only reason could be his age, Archie was born on 20th june 1905 so when the marriage took place 27th Dec 1924 he was 19 so would have had to have parental consent and perhaps for some reason he knew he wouldn't get it.
Alice was under age but her father signed the certificate so he was in favour of their marriage even though his son in law was not using his own name.
Kenneths birth certificate may hold the clue.
His birth was registered in Oct/Nov/Dec 1925 but to have been born in July /Aug/Sep he could have been registered in Oct.

 

[Lady Penelope]

Thank you both. I think a baby on the way is the most likely reason for his early marriage. I wonder if he was estranged from his family as the witnesses are both from her side?
I think there's a possibility that Archie may have had a prison record but I haven't been able to discover anything about this.
The last question though is whether Arthur's marriage in 1930 was valid as legally he was already married.

 

[sospiri]

Intriguing. I can only find two mentions of an Archie Clifford in Birmingham newspapers between 1905 and the end of 1950. The first lists him as an entertainer in Family Broadcasting in the Birmingham Gazette dated 18 October 1926. The second was on 21 December 1939 in the Birmingham Daily Post when he was living in Dunvegan Road when he filed a Deed of Arrangement with his creditor(s) over a total unsecured debt of less than £300. He had other debts, but they were secured. If they are of interest, Lady P, I will post them. Otherwise he's pretty much an invisible man! Mind you, £300 would buy a new house at Great Barr in the 1930s, so my mother told me many years ago.

Maurice

 

[Lady Penelope]

Thank you Maurice. I would like to see them if that's possible. I find the first one very strange!

 

[sospiri]

Here we go Lady P, dates & papers as per my previous post.

Maurice

 

[Alberta]

I cannot see that any court would find the marriage in 1930 bigamous if he did not sign the 1924 certificate and is therefore entitled to be called bachelor, I wonder if he knew what his brother had done.

 

[Lady Penelope]

Thank you Maurice - I'll print those two off. Very interesting.

Thank you too Alberta, I felt that this was probably the case but wasn't sure. I'm in two minds about whether he knew or not.

 

[sospiri]

Lady P,

You're welcome. Obviously before my time as I wasn't born until 1937, but the name Beryl Bryan (solo piano) rings a distant bell - the only name there that does. I think she was either a BBC staff pianist, or at least under contract to the BBC, and the forerunner to Violet Carson (Ena Sharples of Coronation Street) who previous to her acting roles, was the regular pianist of Children's Hour. Such a pity that tape recording wasn't even in its infancy then as it would be lovely to hear a recording of that day's broadcasting.

Those were the only newspaper mentions of his name. An annual subscription to The Stage archives is too expensive, so I generally buy time as I need it, but I doubt if his name will appear there as it doesn't appear in The Era. However, take a look at the Radio Times archives here, though they don't add significantly to our information, except that he appeared to be performing fairly regularly at that time:-

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?adv=0&q=%22Archie+Clifford%22&media=all&yf=1923&yt=2009&mf=1&

mt=12&tf=00%3A00&tt=00%3A00#search

The BBC Archives themselves are intended for use by the BBC researchers internally and all all external enquiries have to go through the BBC Public Enquiries and will be charged for. The chances of them keeping contact details 93 years later are very slim indeed and would not to my mind justify the probable cost of their research. He also doesn't appear in the Theatrical & Musical Deaths List, which I have maintained for the last few years since the original owner died. Also, since the rehash of RootsWeb last year, many of the lists and archives were lost, and although the Theatre-UK list still exists, its archives appear somewhat barren. You could try joining the list here:-

https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/theatre-uk.rootsweb.com/

and posting a message to see if anything comes back. It used to be quite a busy list, but since the rehash I have received very few emails from it. What we really need to establish is that it is your Archie Clifford. Hope that helps.

Maurice

 

[sospiri]

Lady P,

It is looking likely that Archie Clifford, the performer, is NOT your Archie Clifford after all. In fact, as far as the performer is concerned, it may not have been his real name. The Stage is now included in the British Library Newspaper Archives, and had I not included Birmingham as a filter, he would have shown up at least 100 times between 1925 & 1929. He is described variously as a talented light comedian, doing a song & comedy routine, and a nimble dancer, and worked a lot with the late Ronald Frankau - but obviously not in Birmingham during those years. Some of our older members may remember Ronald Frankau on BBC radio programmes such as Variety Bandbox & its forerunners. At one time he was doing a sketch called Mr Murgatroyd & Mr Winterbottom with Tommy Handley. Here's a sample of one of his routines, very tame by today's standards:-

https://www.britishpathe.com/video/ronald-frankau-1/query/Charles

and here's an advert for one of his shows:-



During those years Archie worked all over England from Yorkshire to Sussex and yet not in Brum - that seems very odd for someone who lived there. I will continue to research until I have found the performer's real name or contact details, but for now, I would be inclined to take this "nimble dancer" out of your research, though such an activity might come in useful to a future roofer!

Maurice

 

[MWS]

After arriving back in England in 1950, Archie, Alice and 2 grandchildren left for Canada again in 1952, arriving in New York on 15 Sep. The eldest grandchild was born in Canada but the youngest was born in England, c1951.

Kenneth and Irene had already gone back to Canada in 1951.

Alice and the 2 grandchildren arrived back in England again in 1956. An address of 96 Bleakhill Road, Erdington is listed.

Philip's dob is listed as 16 Nov 1950 which seems to point to a Philip N Clifford who's birth was registered in Wandsworth, Dec 1950, mmn Whatmore.

 

[sospiri]

Well it seems that performer Archie Clifford's first mention in the press was this on 26 June 1919 (your Archie would have been barely 14 years old then):-



and his last publicised appearances were in the latter half of 1928 playing the part of Sgt Wurtley in the Edgar Wallace play The Lad at the Shatesbury Theatre, London, and various theatres around England, and he disappears from the horizon on 28th December 1928. I've been unable to ascertain his real name. If he was an "eminent artiste" in June 1919, as claimed above, then he must have started a year or two before that and unlikely to be your Archie.

Maurice