Central Grammar, International School Tile Cross

[Vivienne14]

Could someone (possibly former pupils ?) help to unscramble this description of the school please ?

CENTRAL GRAMMAR SCHOOL FOR BOYS, Suffolk Street (1897–c. 1939); Burbidge Rd. (c. 1944– 1955); Gressel Lane, Tile Cross (1957). Municipal Technical Day Sch. opened 1897 by Birm. C.B.C., for B only, in buildings described as 'nothing short of a technical palace'. Central Secondary Sch. at first formed part of the technical school but later became a separate sch. though shared same building until c. 1939. Reopened after or towards end of war in 'a former senior school' in Burbidge Rd. (ex. inf. M. of Ed.). Temporarily accommodated in Cherrywood Rd. Transferred 1957 to newly-built premises at Gressel Lane, Tile Cross. As late as 1919 it had a bias towards science and engineering. N.o.b. 1914: 284, 1937: 400 (ex inf. M. of Ed.), 1961: 565.(28) Fees £3 a year; by 1937 £12. In 1911 c. 84 per cent. pupils came from elementary schools, in 1937 'almost all'. Average leaving age 1910–13: 15½ yrs., 1953: 16–17 (ex inf. M. of Ed.).

Question:
It includes Central Secondary School under the same heading. In some way it seems to be linked, but was it at any time considered part of the grammar school ?

Were the schools in partnership perhaps ? Or were they totally seperate schools ? CSS seems to have developed from a Technical School as far back as 1897. From adverts I've seen from the early 1900s the Tech was based in Suffolk Street. Both CSS and CGS used Suffolk Street as their premises (but maybe not at the same time ?).

Or were they totally independent of each other ?

Basically what I'm trying to work out is, what was their relationship ?

Viv

 

[Phil]

Viv

Best of luck, I found this very confusing when looking into the history of the Central Municipal Technical School that later became Central Birmingham Technical College. It states in several places that it was built in 1995 to be a technical school, but it contradicts itself here, https://www.aston.ac.uk/50/history/the-early-years/ although it doesn't say it was called a secondary school. Though this was pointed out to me https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3593285 from what I can make out from that page it looks like it was a secondary school in between being a technical school and a technical college. It's all very confusing.

 

[pjmburns]

I did ask my husband last night. He went in 1964 when the school was firmly established at Gressel Lane and called Central Grammar. He was there until 1971 and knew it began in Suffolk Street as The Central but had never heard it referred to as anything else.

 

[pjmburns]

In 1904 - 05 the site in Suffolk Street is marked "Technical Schools" but by 1937 it has become "Central Technical College". By 1952 it is "College of Technology". By 1978 the site is a car park. The dates are determined by the scale of the maps where I can see enough detail. I cannot at the moment find a map which shows The Central but I suspect that it was the same site. I am not too bothered by the word "Secondary" as it only refers to the age range of the school and not the type of school.

The attached map is the 1904 - 05 one.

 

[pjmburns]

Oddly in the 1899 Kelly's there is no mention of The Central School on Suffolk Street - only Birmingham Municipal Technical School is listed. In 1913 The Central and Birmingham Municipal Technical School are listed in schools but only the latter is listed on Suffolk Street. I did see earlier reference in the list of schools to "The Day School". I think (but have no proof at the moment) that The buildings were used by what became Central Grammar in the daytime and the Technical School used the same building at night as I also found reference to "Evening Classes".

 

[mbenne]

Here are the names my husband remembers:
Ian Davidson (English), George Tustin and ?Gregory (Maths), Howard Carter, Pip May and ? Firth (French), J Roberts, B Hutton (both Geography), Trog Evans (History), Arnie Faulkner and Mick Doss (Physics), "Knocker" Harris (Biology), DRW (PE - initials from a report), T Sandland (Music), C G Thomas (known as Taffy - RE whose son was in my husband's year). Others include Karabis, and Headmasters Ockleton and Goodfellow (later Head of Moseley Grammar and then the comp).
Anyone know who the initials refer to? He also has a 1970 whole school photo.

Jan2ice

I just found this thread and wondered why Colin Mcfadyen never got a mention as I recall that he played an active part in PE/games and also taught us history in our first year before Sam came along.
Does anyone remember when CWMs picture appeared in one of the Sunday papers with team mates and Can Can girls following a lions match with France. I think England lost?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_McFadyean
Ps His team sbirt was also displayed in the trophy cabinet opposite the heads study.

Sam, by the way, also taught us biology in year 2 and was more likeable as a biology teacher than as PE mentor! Have more to add on CGS but away from home at the moment.

 

[pjmburns]

My husband (a rugby player) remembers Colin - when were you at CGS?

 

[mbenne]

My husband (a rugby player) remembers Colin - when were you at CGS?

1965 - 1971. It wasnt one of my most enjoyable times in life. I quite liked rugby in year 1 but wasn't an asset on account of my size so I progressed to cross country, making the 1st team which was mentored by 'Zombie' Norton. He was quite a stickler for discipline when he joine the school to teach maths in 1966. As time went on he was treated quite badly by the lads in 4th a 5th year who gave him no respect at all. That said I liked him a lot and well remember the time he lent me 50p bus fare to compete against Saltly Grammar☺

 

[jmadone]

I did ask my husband last night. He went in 1964 when the school was firmly established at Gressel Lane and called Central Grammar. He was there until 1971 and knew it began in Suffolk Street as The Central but had never heard it referred to as anything else.

Coincidentally I came across this medal a week or so ago and started making enquiries about it's origins on another forum.

With lot's of help and diligent research the conclusion is that they are from Central Secondary School which was then based in Suffolk Street. The school then developed into Central Grammar. At the time of this medal the sports day was held at Elmdon Road, Selly Park.

 

[pjmburns]

M Benne My husband was there 1964 to 1971. He has a school photo of 1970 so you must be on it somewhere! He thought 'Zombie' taught biology. You were obviously both there at the same time. Do you remember any of these? Robert Woodford, Ian Jones, Bill Atkins, Gerald Anstis, John Twigg, any others you can recall? Think this had better become a "conversation".

 

[mbenne]

Coincidentally I came across this medal a week or so ago and started making enquiries about it's origins on another forum.

With lot's of help and diligent research the conclusion is that they are from Central Secondary School which was then based in Suffolk Street. The school then developed into Central Grammar. At the time of this medal the sports day was held at Elmdon Road, Selly Park.

Spooky. Our paths are crossing again lol

 

[pjmburns]

Coincidentally I came across this medal a week or so ago and started making enquiries about it's origins on another forum.

With lot's of help and diligent research the conclusion is that they are from Central Secondary School which was then based in Suffolk Street. The school then developed into Central Grammar. At the time of this medal the sports day was held at Elmdon Road, Selly Park.

See here https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/for...e-medals-were-presented-by.48674/#post-613706

 

[mbenne]

M Benne My husband was there 1964 to 1971. He has a school photo of 1970 so you must be on it somewhere! He thought 'Zombie' taught biology. You were obviously both there at the same time. Do you remember any of these? Robert Woodford, Ian Jones, Bill Atkins, Gerald Anstis, John Twigg, any others you can recall? Think this had better become a "conversation".

Yes. I will be somewhere on the back row. I rember when it was being taken. To get the height fo r the back row we had to stand on tables and chairs. Some of the lads took great pleasure in kicking away the chairs as others walked along them to take centre stage I dont think H&S regs would allow it now.

I remember the name Anstis and a few memorable prefects / sub prefects Bray, Puncheon, Rawson, Prodroumo (Can't check spelling on that one).

I dont have the 70 photo but do have the one from 66 so i guess your husband would be on that one too.And like a rabit out of a hat i just happen to have a bit of the photo on my phone with 'Neck' Gregory, 'Zombie' Norton and 'Tommy' Reader

 

[jmadone]

I'm sorry I didn't see the enquiries made by Phil on my behalf until just now. I've duplicated threads, forums etc..........
How embarrassing. My sincere thanks to everyone on this forum for their help in solving the mystery. As a by the way the only reason I came across this medal is because I'm looking for a fob for my silver watch chain.

 

[Vivienne14]

In an attempt to find out the links, if any, between Central Grammar School and Central Secondary School I've had a look at the progression of the school(s) from 1906 to the 1940s through their admission arrangements (and any other useful articles) as reported in newspapers. This is what I found.

Sept 1906 - "Birmingham Municipal Technical School" advert announcing course sessions to start at
Central School, Suffolk St, and
Branch School classes at Oozells St, Geo Dixon Sec Sch and Waverley Road Sec Sch. These were prep courses eg mechanical engineering, maths
A programme of classes was available

May 1914 - "Council Secondary Schools" advert announcing admissions exams for
Central Secondary School, Suffolk St (along with these secondary schools Geo Dixon, Waverley Road, Kings Norton, Yardley)

Sept 1914 - advert headed "Birmingham Municipal Technical School" announcing sessions commencing at
Central School, Suffolk Street, and
Branch schools at Oozells St, Geo Dixon Sec Sch, City Rd and Waverley Road Small Heath Sec Sch
A programme of classes was available

1929 - "Admission to Secondary Schools 1929" advert for exam scholarships, free places and admissions at
Central Secondary School, Suffolk St (along with these secondary schools: Geo Dixon, Erdington, Kings Norton, Yardley and Moseley. And KEGS, Handsworth and St Phillip's Grammar Schools)

1939 - July "Central Grammar School" took part in a practice evacuation with 28 other Birmingham schools

1939 - August & Sept "Birmingham Central Technical College" advert for new sessions delayed

1939 - August "Central Grammar School" boy joins trip to Canada with 9 other Birmingham grammar school boys (a party of 40 British students in total)

1939 - Sept a City of Birmingham advert about 1940 admissions to grammar schools including Central Grammar School (along with these grammar schools: Erdington, Geo Dixon, Kings Norton, Yardley, Waverley Road, Moseley, KEGS, Handsworth, St Phillip's and St Paul's)

1940 Sept - an advert about grammar school admissions for 1940 as per Sept 1939 advert

1945 Oct Birmingham Central Tech was advertising "Foremanship" evening classes.


So in conclusion

Central Secondary School is mentioned in adverts from 1906 under the banner of Birmingham Municipal Technical School which not only included Central Sec School but a number of branch schools (offering 'classes' and 'prep courses')

Central Secondary School was advertising admissions exams from 1914 (along with several other Birmingham secondary schools which all became grammar schools by 1939)

I could find no references to Central Grammar School before July 1939.

Around 1939 a new title "Birmingham Central Tech College" starts to appear in adverts. Both Birmingham Central Technical College and Central Grammar School had newspaper adverts appearing (separately) in mid-1939

So either Central Grammar School went by another name pre-1939 or it was called Central Secondary School/Central School before 1939. Technical training may have also been - as Janice suggested earlier - available on the premises on a part-time basis (evening ?). A number of other schools ("branches") also seem to have been involved across Birmingham. Perhaps this was a common arrangement made with the schools at the time to provide shorter, technical classes.

This may answer a few of our questions but possibly throws up others !

Viv.

 

[jmadone]

A post on another forum said that according to national archives ref ED35/2576 from 1902 to 1919 the school formerly known as the Birmingham Municipal Technical School was called Suffolk Street Council Secondary School.
Aston University website says that up until 1919 the technical school was only open as a night school as during the daytime it was a boys school. Perhaps it moved premises after 1919 and evolved into Central Grammar after 1939.

 

[pjmburns]

I think the Day School became Central Grammar. I am trying to verify this.

 

[devonjim]

In 1958 my neighbour, Mrs. Sanders was school cook at Central GS in Tile Cross. I think she "spoilt" the upper sixth boys as I remember seeing pictures of celebration cakes that she baked for the boys. A bit above and beyond the usual school meals fare.

 

[mbenne]

School letter from the headmaster Mr Ockleton, 1965. His writing on school reports was so tiny a magnifying glass was needed to read it - his signature at the bottom confirms!

 

[pjmburns]

Will try to scan staff from 1970 school photo later.

 

[pjmburns]

Here is the school photo from 1970 - I had to do it in 4 sections. (left, centre 1, centre 2 and right - there is some overlap to ensure I got everyone on). My husband is in the one marked centre 1. (I assume it is OK to post the photo?)

 

[mbenne]

Here is the Photo from school year 1966/67. I've named the teachers below - some I don't recall having a nick name - or maybe I've forgotten. I'm definitely on this one but for the life of me I don't recognise myself on the 1970 take despite knowing I was on it and which side I was on - I have a good idea but maybe it was the long hair. The staff were pretty much the same in 1970 though there are a few new faces on that photo that I don't recognise - from 1970 photo these are the new faces , 5th one in from the right of the men in white coats is 'Ron' Peck, 5th one to the right of the New Head, Mr Goodfellow is 'Rick' O'shea and 11th to the right of the head is the music teacher Mr Sandlands aka 'Flower'

I bet there weren't many schools that could boast having staff with names and initials A Badman and A Goodfellow!

? denotes that I have no idea what they taught!

Caretaker (and Wife?)
'Arnie Mole' Faulkner - Physics
'Splinter' Talbot - Woodwork
'Georgie' Karavis - ?
'Jock' Rowley - Metalwork
'Ali' Badmam - French
'Trog' Evans - History
'Brasper' Roberts - English and Latin
'Micky' Sellis - Maths
'Kinky' Davidson - ?
'Frankie' Howard - ?
'Knocker' Harris - Biology
'Cag' Carter - French
'Broo' Pool - Art
'Neck' Gregory Maths chess club and catholic assembly
'Zombie' Norton Maths science and cross country coach
'Tommy' Reader - English?
'Ted' Phillips - ?
'Pip' May - French and Deputy Head
Mr Ockleton Headmaster
School Secretary
'Johny' Wakely - English
'Sammy' Row - Maths
'Andy' Firth - French
'Jona' Jones - Music
'Alice' McKekney - ?
'Slasher' Walker - English
'Titch' Harris - History
'Blob' Harbour - Chemistry
Mr Gunter - Science
Colin Mcfadyen - PE sports and History
'Crut' aka Ben Hutton - RE and Geography
'Jasper' Roberts - Geography
'Ernie' Samways - English?
'Taffy' Thomas - RE
'Sam Doble' - Sports and PE and Biology

In 1966/67 school year we had first ever female teacher.

Faces that don't appear on either photos:
Mr Greatorex - Art
'Jerry'- Liddle Maths
'Mike' Pilling - English (in 1966 replaced by Mr Walker)
'Malc' Doss - Physics
B D Roberts - Assistant Head 1970/71 school year onwards

In 1966/67 term Broo Pool replaced Mr Greatorex as art master. He in turn was replaced by Ron Peck in 1967/68. We also had 2 further maths teachers one in 1967 the other in 1970/71 but dont recall their names.

'Jona'Jones was replaced by mr Sandlands in 1967/8.
Mr Ockleton replaced by Mr A Goodfellow about 1967/68. He also taught 5th form physics in 1970/71.

In 1970/71 a new deputy Headteacher, B D Roberts replaced Pip May.

 

[jmadone]

I can recall a couple of boys that went from Mapledene to Central. One name I remember is Robert Pallister. Then there was a lad named Christopher Rowan and another boy named John Cole. I wonder if their names ring any bells or if they feature on the photograph.

 

[mbenne]

Sorry I don't recall their names. I only remember some of those in the same year and of course class mates from Mapledene that started the same time. One exception was a lad a year older than me that lived in Cranes Park and persuaded me to go there - his name was Stephan Czajkowski.

 

[Lumpammer]

Here is the Photo from school year 1966/67. I've named the teachers below - some I don't recall having a nick name - or maybe I've forgotten. I'm definitely on this one but for the life of me I don't recognise myself on the 1970 take despite knowing I was on it and which side I was on - I have a good idea but maybe it was the long hair. The staff were pretty much the same in 1970 though there are a few new faces on that photo that I don't recognise - from 1970 photo these are the new faces , 5th one in from the right of the men in white coats is 'Ron' Peck, 5th one to the right of the New Head, Mr Goodfellow is 'Rick' O'shea and 11th to the right of the head is the music teacher Mr Sandlands aka 'Flower'

I bet there weren't many schools that could boast having staff with names and initials A Badman and A Goodfellow!

? denotes that I have no idea what they taught!

Caretaker (and Wife?)
'Arnie Mole' Faulkner - Physics
'Splinter' Talbot - Woodwork
'Georgie' Carabis - ?
'Jock' Rowley - Metalwork
'Ali' Badmam - French
'Trog' Evans - History
'Brasper' Roberts - English and Latin
'Micky' Sellis - Maths
'Kinky' Davidson - ?
'Frankie' Howard - ?
'Knocker' Harris - Biology
'Cag' Carter - French
'Broo' Pool - Art
'Neck' Gregory Maths chess club and catholic assembly
'Zombie' Norton Maths science and cross country coach
'Tommy' Reader - English?
'Ted' Phillips - ?
'Pip' May - French and Deputy Head
Mr Ockleton Headmaster
School Secretary
'Johny' Wakely - English
'Sammy' Row - Maths
'Andy' Firth - French
'Jona' Jones - Music
'Alice' McKekney - ?
'Slasher' Walker - English
'Titch' Harris - History
'Blob' Harbour - Chemistry
Mr Gunter - Science
Colin Mcfadyen - PE sports and History
'Crut' aka Ben Hutton - RE and Geography
'Jasper' Roberts - Geography
'Ernie' Samways - English?
'Taffy' Thomas - RE
'Sam Doble' - Sports and PE and Biology

In 1966/67 school year we had first ever female teacher.

Faces that don't appear on either photos:
Mr Greatorex - Art
'Jerry'- Liddle Maths
'Mike' Pilling - English (in 1966 replaced by Mr Walker)
'Malc' Doss - Physics
B D Roberts - Assistant Head 1970/71 school year onwards

In 1966/67 term Broo Pool replaced Mr Greatorex as art master. He in turn was replaced by Ron Peck in 1967/68. We also had 2 further maths teachers one in 1967 the other in 1970/71 but dont recall their names.

'Jona'Jones was replaced by mr Sandlands in 1967/8.
Mr Ockleton replaced by Mr A Goodfellow about 1967/68. He also taught 5th form physics in 1970/71.

In 1970/71 a new deputy Headteacher, B D Roberts replaced Pip May.

Georgie Carabis, correct spelling Karavis was Greek and a Maths teacher. How appropriate!

 

[pjmburns]

Thanks mbenne - now my husband is going to try to find himself on the 1967 photo. He has had a quick look and spotted lots of faces he can name but not himself at the moment! will post how he gets on.

 

[mbenne]

Georgie Carabis, correct spelling Karavis was Greek and a Maths teacher. How appropriate!

Thanks for that - I never had any encounters with 'Georgie' but I've amended his name for the record.

 

[mbenne]

Thanks mbenne - now my husband is going to try to find himself on the 1967 photo. He has had a quick look and spotted lots of faces he can name but not himself at the moment! will post how he gets on.

Maybe we are familiar with the faces on our respective photos as I had difficulty finding lads I knew in 67 in the 1970 take, including myself!

 

[Lumpammer]

I can recall a couple of boys that went from Mapledene to Central. One name I remember is Robert Pallister. Then there was a lad named Christopher Rowan and another boy named John Cole. I wonder if their names ring any bells or if they feature on the photograph.

I seem to remember from my year but not my class. That would be 1960-65/6 so I don't think you will find them on this photograph.
One of the teachers I remember but not listed here is Frank Norman Dixon, I think he taught English. He used to sign himself off as "Effendi" and wrote an article called The Rules Of Cricket, which was hilarious, for the school magazine which was called The Hammer.

 

[mbenne]

I seem to remember from my year but not my class. That would be 1960-65/6 so I don't think you will find them on this photograph.
One of the teachers I remember but not listed here is Frank Norman Dixon, I think he taught English. He used to sign himself off as "Effendi" and wrote an article called The Rules Of Cricket, which was hilarious, for the school magazine which was called The Hammer.

Dixon must have been before my time but 'Effendi" sounds familiar, maybe I read it somewhere else on this site? As far as I know the last of the really old staff was Greatorex who left in 66.