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Bus Questions

Lloyd

master brummie
I agree with Dek, that's Vicarage Rd at Allens Croft Rd jcn, heading away from Kings Heath. Don't know why a temporary stop is in use - unless the stop was being replaced by a new stop or shelter, here's the spot there now.
 

Thylacine

master brummie
Excuse the abysmal ignorance of the poor endangered Thylacine, but when did WMPTE adopt that livery?
 

Lloyd

master brummie
Ahh, but they didn't - it was forced upon them. The bus is former Coventry Corporation 225 (VWK 225) and still in Coventry livery, now numbered 225Y. The last letter of the former owners' name was added to fleet numbers for vehicles taken over from Coventry, Walsall, West Bromwich or Wolverhampton corporations (3 of the 4 having 'W' as the first letter!) as many of the numbers were otherwise duplicated, and they ran in their former owners liveries until normal repainting schedule or withdrawal from service caught up with them. Former Birmingham Corporation and later, Midland Red vehicles that were taken over were in higher numbering sequences and did not require such additions to fleet numbers. Self-adhesive stickers with the 'West Midlands' fleetname, and legal owners address, on base coats of the former operators' liveries covered previous fleet names, addresses and corporation coats of arms.
Vehicles were transferred around the enlarged operating area, some former Birmingham 2-man buses going to ex-Midland Red garages for instance (giving passengers the chance to ride on unheated open platform buses for the first time since the D5 type disappeared from the streets!) and Coventry vehicles coming to Birmingham for the Outer Circle route, which eventually was the last conductor-operated route on the system.
 

Thylacine

master brummie
Interesting story. Thanks Lloyd. (Actually I did recognize the Coventry livery, but forgot it had been absorbed into WMPTE).
 

ragga

master brummie
View attachment 50786

Thanks Dek & Lloyd for your location of the Outer Circle bus :)
this image of a single decker in West Brom corparation livery
im quite sure it was based at Selly Oak in it BCT Days .
ragga :)
 

dek carr

gone but not forgotten
Ragga there used to be two bus stations on the Wolverhamptron Rd one was for midland red the other one (which I think this Is )is the other side of Oldbury Island and is now an" Asda Supermarket".Dek
 

motorman-mike

Brum visitor who stayed.
ragga, what you have there is ex BCT Leyland PS2 2250 in use with West Bromwich Welfare Department who fitted a wheelchair lift to the back of it. As shown by the background Fleetline bus this view was taken after West Bromwich Corporation Transport Department fleet been taken over by the West Midlands Passenger Transport Executive in 1969.
 

ragga

master brummie
View attachment 50827


Thanks for the info Dek ,Mike & Lloyd they must have been at Selly Oak Garage
when they were BCT .

Here a nice photo of Newtown around 1975 why is the bus stop a setting down point ?
ragga :)
 

Bernard67Arnold

master brummie
View attachment 50777

Which part of the Outer Circle was this taken ?
looking at the bus top was there a diversion in place ?
thank you. ragga :)
Hi ragga, I have said many times on this forum, just before the war and
after Brum must have had one of the best bus services in the country, the inner circle 8, outer circle 11
and then the all night services it was really a first class service, what a pity it all ended !!! Bernard
 

dek carr

gone but not forgotten
Here a nice photo of Newtown around 1975 why is the bus stop a setting down point ?
ragga


Ragga i notice on the bus stop is Harper B,ham Ltd they were builders that looks like the location of the Central Post Office it appears to be hoarding on the side i wonder if it was a health and safety thing .Dek
 

Lloyd

master brummie
Harpers, a private company based at Cannock and Heath Hayes, were eventually allowed to run a through service to Birmingham, but only on the condition that they did not carry 'local' passengers in the city, this was called a 'protective' arrangement. So, the bus could drop off but not pick up - and heading out of town would only carry passengers who intended to journey beyond the (city) operating boundary.
The company eventually sold its bus and coach operating division to Midland Red, but otherwise still exists as a land owner in Cannock, owned by the Harper family. Mary Harper (in her 90s when I last heard) is still as far as I know the company chairman (chairwoman?).
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
dek..i cant see the newtown pic:( lol silly me i wasnt you who posted it....ive got it now thanks ragga...

lyn:)
 
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Thylacine

master brummie
2010-05-30 07:57:22

Well explained, Lloyd.
:)

Cecil Harper founded the Staffordshire bus firm Harper Brothers (Heath Hayes) Ltd in 1922. For a while it traded as “Gloria-de-Luxe Motor Services”. The livery was a rather attractive blue-green (aquamarine?). On 22 April 1974 Midland Red Omnibus Co Ltd (MRO) acquired Harper Bros and its wholly-owned subsidiary Tudor Rose Coaches of Sutton Coldfield (effective 7 September 1974). The acquisition included 50 vehicles, 89 full-time staff and the depot at Hednesford Road, Heath Hayes, Cannock. Harper Bros managing director Brian Harper became Area Engineer (Eastern) with MRO.

Lloyd, do you know the relationship of Mary Harper to founder Cecil Harper?
 

Lloyd

master brummie
Not sure, but I think Mary was his daughter, there was an elderly brother (of hers) living as well when I knew of them (5-6 years ago). I'll check the ancestry in a day or so (Wythall opendays tomorrow and Monday - busy time!)

Here is a surviving as yet unrestored Harper's bus, a former St Helens corporation AEC 'RT' (originally identical to the London Transport ones) fitted with platform doors by Harpers. It shows the fleet colour (a sort of pale apple green).
 

Lloyd

master brummie
Re- the Harpers (an everyday story of Cannock people!)
Had a spare hour this morning, so I delved a little.

Cecil George Harper was born 2nd quarter 1897 at Five Ways, Cannock (36 Hednesford Road was the home address, the approximate location of Harpers Heath Hayes garage). 1911 census gives siblings as:
Victor Edward, b. 3rd q. 1900
Albert Edwin, b. 4th q. 1903
Eileen, b. 1st q. 1908 (Actually 16th February)
Felix, b. 3rd q. 1909 (Actally 6th August - this is the brother I remember - he died in July 2000)
Mary, b. 1st q. 1911. (Can't find a death up to 2005)

The parents were Edward Joseph Harper (b. 3rd q. 1866, Birmingham - Kings Norton registration district) and Ellen Elizabeth Harper nee Cooper (b. 4th q. 1871 Brownhills). They married 2nd q. 1896 in Cannock district.
There was another brother, Eric J Harper, b. 1900 d. 1906.

So Mary and Felix were the last surviving siblings of the Harper Bros bus company founder.
A Harper bus is restored at Wythall, see here.
 
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Thylacine

master brummie
Thanks for delving into the Harper family, Lloyd. Very interesting! And HBF679D is a very smart looking Leyland PD2A.
 
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