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Bull Family

zircon

master brummie
Frank Bull b 1862 in Kings Heath died 1909
in 1881 he is a fender maker with his parents
No sign of him in 1891
family rumour has it he went in too the army his mother bought him out he rejoined and after met a woman in london and nothing else was heard about him, the frank in 1901 fits in wife from london
in 1901 this may be him at 89 cattell rd with wife 'h' born london 1862 daughter 'f' born london 1881, son 'a' born london 1882, daughter 'm' born london 1888, daughter 'a.a.' born b'ham 1894,daughter 'l' born b'ham 1896 and son 'g' born 'ham 1899
what are the names of his wife and children?

any ideas and what happened to the family after franks death
i can find no records of bdm

many thanks
rob
 

MickyMetro

Brummie babby
Hi Rob,
I too have been searching for Frank Bull. I thought I had it sussed when I found a marriage of Frank Bull to Harriett Clark in 1882 at London but on obtaining the certificate Frank's father's name and occupation is wrong. Also I got the birth certificate of our ancestor, Frank's son, George Henry Bull, born 9/7/1899 at 89 Cattell Road and the mother's maiden name is given as Harriet Turner.
I cannot find any marriage of Frank to Harriet so I don't think they were married.

The 1901 Bull census entry is very unusual in that the children's names are only given as initials, it is the only census record I have ever seen like this. Makes me feel they were attempting to hide something.

I have searched high and low in the 1891 census for the Bulls but cannot find them. However, I did find this intriguing entry:
8 Murrey Street, Shoreditch, Hoxton New Town, London
Frank Thompson, Head, Marrried, 29, Fender Maker, Born Birmingham, Worcestershire
Harriett Thompson, Wife, Married, 29, Born London City
Maud Thompson, Daug, 4, Born Clerkenwell, London

This fits our Frank except that the surname used is Thompson. The Christian names, birth places, ages and occupation match and a Fender Maker must be a very rare occupation. Also the daughter Maud lines up with M. Bull in the 1901 census.

With your information on Frank going into the army my theory is that after 1881 Frank did a spell in the army and on leaving met Harriet in London. Harriet was married and had 2 or 3 children. She went off to live with Frank and they used another name, maybe because the army or Harriet's husband were after them. By 1901 they had moved to Cattell Road, Birmingham and must have thought is save to use the Bull name but did not want to disclose the children's names. By 1911 Frank has died and Harriet is at Liverpool Street.

In 1924 when George Henry Bull got married he was living at 16 Sycamore Terrace, Wolseley Street, Bimingham so Harriet and the Bull family may have there.

I am going to Birmingham library next week to look at the Electoral Registers for Liverpool Street and Sycamore Terrace to see if I can glean any more information on the Bulls after 1911. Do you have any other info on Frank, Harriet or the children?
Regards,
Mike.
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
There were quite a lot of fender makers in Birmingham. It seems to be a trade where Birmingham supplied most of them. the list from the 1882 Kellys is below

 

zircon

master brummie
Hi
Frank died in 1910 and is buried with his mother Ann in Yardley Wood, although his father George is buried in All Saints Kings Heath

It would obviously be helpful to get Franks death certificate


Up until recently I knew nothing about Frank except his death etc and the family rumour

What happened to Harriate after 1911 census?

I see George Henry married Elizabeth Halvorsen in 1924
in 1930 they are at 217 Charles Rd Bordsley green

I also saw Franks marriage to Harriet in London strange thing is it fits

Very hard family to find

Anyway I do have the rest of the Bull family
regards
Rob
 

MickyMetro

Brummie babby
Hi Rob,
I have checked over the electoral registers at Birmingham library from 1920 onwards looking for the Bull family. The registers from 1920 onwards are in printed books and easy to use, prior to 1920 they are on microfilm and take ages to sift through.
At 16 Sycamore Terrace, Wolseley Street, Birmingham, which is the address George Henry Bull gave when he got married in 1924, I found Henry Merchant and Harriet Merchant. Henry and Harriet lived at Sycamore Terrace from 1922 until 1935. Suspecting that the Harriet may be our Harriet Bull remarried to Henry Merchant I checked the marriage indexes but could not find a marriage between them. However, there is a marriage between Henry Merchant and Annie Bull at Aston in 1912. It's so close I have ordered the certificate to check the details.
Also at 16 Sycamore Terrace living with the Merchants between 1931 and 1933 are William Alfred Clements and Violet Clements and in 1935 there is John Thomas and Elizabeth Beatrice Thomas living there. I have no idea who these other people are.
Regards.
Mike
 

zircon

master brummie
Hi Mike

This family is more mysterious as time goes on

You say you have the marriage and birth certificate for George henry , could I see a copy please

I seem to think that the children
' f born 1881 , /a born 1882 / a born 1888
are not Franks but Harriets from another marriage
There are a lot of mysteries within the census information
ie Harriet in 1911 says she had 10 children 3 of them died but she only ever lists 6 on the census in 1901


It would be nice to sort this information and family out

How are you related to Frank , he is my great grand uncle
regards
rob
 

zircon

master brummie
The 1901 census gives A.A. as a daughter born 1894, in 1911 she is down as Ada but there is no Ada with an A born in Bham in 1894ish , there is a Ada Emily b 1894 also a Annie Adelaide born 1893 in Aston
could Ada in 1911 be short for Adelaide and then she uses her first name in 1912 to marry Henry Merchant perhaps???
 

MickyMetro

Brummie babby
Hi Rob,
George Henry Bull is my daughter-in-law's great grandfather. I am research her side of the family but the Bull side is proving difficult.
Yes, it could be the A.A. Bull in the 1901 census married Henry Merchant, we will have to see what the marriage certificate says.
I have attached the birth and marriage of George Henry Bull.
Regards,
Mike.

Bir_BullGeorgeH.jpg

Mar_BullHalvorsen.jpg
 

MickyMetro

Brummie babby
Hi Rob,
Do you know the Bull's grave locations within the Yardley Wood and All Saints Kings Heath cemeteries so I can pay them a visit and get some photos.
Thanks,
Mike.
 

zircon

master brummie
On Ancestry I have tried to trace the family but with not much luck

However I looked on the electoral rolls and traced George from Collingdale Rd to 217 Charles rd, in 1920,1922,1927,1927 and 1930 he is listed as being in Charles Rd ,
the other person listed on a number of occasions is Fanny FRYER

Couldn't see a connection till I did a census search for 1901 where in Aston Kingston rd there is a
Henry Fryer age 25 bricklayers labourer from Hill Top Staffs
Fanny Fryer age 23 from Bham
Henry Halvosen age 24 Wood Sawyer from bham brother in law
Ellen Halvorsen age 25 also from Bham listed as sister

I thought for a brief moment that Fanny Fryer was Georges sister referred to as 'F' Bull but that was also the 1901 census so its not
However they are related to the Halvorsen

maybe you know of a connection
regards
rob
 

Alberta

Super Moderator
Staff member
Hi Rob.

There is a family tree submitted to Ancestry that has links to you Family.

There is a person on Ancestry searching a Whyley family with links to a Goulden family There was a birth of a Caroline Violet Goulding in 1914 mother Thompson but when she married she was Caroline Violet Goulden to Harry Whyley 1934.so her birth reg was mistranscribed.
In the tree Caroline Violet is listed as the daughter of Frank William Goulden and Fanny Thompson who married in 1901 but if you look up the marriage
Frank William Goulden married Fanny Bull.Given the Thompson/Bull connection and the F on the 1901 census I thought it may be of interest.
Annoyingly I can't find Frank or Fanny on 1911, Frank William Goulden b, 1878 Birkenhead.
the marriage certificate of Fanny and Frank may be of interest.

Don't ask how I found it pure fluke I have been playing around with Bull ,Thompson names every now and then since I read your post., really should do more housework, LOL.
 
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zircon

master brummie
Hi Mike
Christ church Yardley wood

Frank was buried 10/12/1910 age 48 of 5 Liverpool St Deritend
He is buried in plot A202
His mother Ann is also in the same plot she was buried 16/11/1904 age 73 years of Institute Rd Kings Heath
As far as I could see there were no further burials in that plot

All Saints Kings Heath
George Bull buried 25/9/1899 age 67 years

Frank was a twin his brother Thomas christened on the same day in All Saints unfortunately Thomas was buried 26/4/1868 age 1 year
As regards the burial plots at All Saints I am sure I was told that the plots were grassed over after the war, but since then the church had a major renovation a few years ago , which looks brilliant

I do now have Ancestry access so if there is anything else that needs to look up please let me know


I will send you a message privately also

regards
rob
 

Alberta

Super Moderator
Staff member
Hi Rob
Can I point out that it often appears that children are twins but sometimes people had some of their children christened on the same day to save money in those days and Frank was born in March qrtr1862 Kings norton and Thomas was born in September qtr 1866 kings norton and died in June qtr, 1868.Kings Norton.

To be a twin you have to share the same registration reference.
 

MickyMetro

Brummie babby
Hi Rob,
Re. Electoral Roll.
Thank you for the info.
I assume you mean 217 Bordesley Green. After George Henry Bull married Elizabeth Gertrude Halvorsen they went to live with Fanny Fryer at 217 Bordesley Green.
Fanny Fryer was Elizabeth Halvorsen's auntie, i.e. Elizabeth's mother was Ellen Louisa Harris (married Henry Halvorsen in 1897) whose sister was Fanny Elizabeth Harris. Fanny Elizabeth Harris married Horatio Harry Fryer in 1896. They went to live at 217 Bordesley Green about 1905ish. Horatio died in 1918. Horatio and Fanny never had any children of their own but when Elizabeth Halvorsen's mother died in 1910 she and her sister Doris went to live with the Fryers at 217 Bordesley Green and it appears the Fryers bought them up. After Elizabeth married George Bull they lived with Fanny Fryer until about 1932. Fanny Fryer died in 1934.
Regards,
Mike.
 

MickyMetro

Brummie babby
Hi Rob,
I have received the attached Merchant/Bull marriage certificate and although it has the name Annie Bull I believe it to be our Harriett Bull because she is described as a widow, the age is correct and her address is given as Allcock Street which joins Liverpool Street where she was living in 1911. Also there is a death of Harriet Merchant in 1938 at Birmingham with the correct age for her.
Why her name is Annie I don't know, seems to be some sort of deception going on here. Note also that her father's name is given as Richard Smith implying her maiden name was Harriet Smith this is inconsistent with her son George's birth certificate which gives her maiden name as Turner.
Regards,
Mike.
Mar_MerchantBull.jpg
 

Dave89

master brummie
Hi,

In the early 1960's I knew a lad in his late teens called Rodney Bull,
who lived in Sedgemere Road Yardley

Kind regards

Dave
 

zircon

master brummie
Hi Mike
Annie Bull is listed in 1912 electoral registers as 37 Allcock St

What a strange lady to try to trace , she certainly didn't want to make it easy
rob
 

Dave_G

proper brummie kid
Hi Alberta

Yes this is my family tree. My aunt Doreen lived with Frank William & Fanny Goulden (her grandparents). My grandmother Caroline Violet Goulden had her name spelt as Goulding on her birth certificate for some reason, so the registrar got the spelling incorrect, probably a common thing back then? I have the wedding certificate of Frank William and Fanny, Fanny's father was John Thompson, and Frank William's father is down as deceased, so his brother Frederick is down in place on the certificate as the witness.

My aunt Doreen has not mentioned any name of Bull in the family for Fanny Goulden (her mother was Mary Ann Taylor - 1851-1901).

On the census records, Frank William and Fanny both lived at 15 Sloane Street, B'ham for a while, my aunt Doreen remembers this, but they are both down on a couple of the census's for this address as 'Golden' and not Goulden.

Not sure if any of this clears anything up?

Dave.

Hi Rob.

There is a family tree submitted to Ancestry that has links to you Family.

There is a person on Ancestry searching a Whyley family with links to a Goulden family There was a birth of a Caroline Violet Goulding in 1914 mother Thompson but when she married she was Caroline Violet Goulden to Harry Whyley 1934.so her birth reg was mistranscribed.
In the tree Caroline Violet is listed as the daughter of Frank William Goulden and Fanny Thompson who married in 1901 but if you look up the marriage
Frank William Goulden married Fanny Bull.Given the Thompson/Bull connection and the F on the 1901 census I thought it may be of interest.
Annoyingly I can't find Frank or Fanny on 1911, Frank William Goulden b, 1878 Birkenhead.
the marriage certificate of Fanny and Frank may be of interest.

Don't ask how I found it pure fluke I have been playing around with Bull ,Thompson names every now and then since I read your post., really should do more housework, LOL.
 

SteveK

New Member
Dave_G, I'm interested in communicating with you if you're still about. Fanny GOULDING nee THOMPSON is my gg aunt.

Cheers

Steve
Brisbane
 
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Alberta

Super Moderator
Staff member
Welcome Steve, DaveG is still member but has not been active since 2015, however if you click into his user name you may be able to start a conversation with him. Alberta.
 
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