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Buildings at risk

Phil
I have sent an e-mail to the Brandwood Cemetery Friends asking them for an update on the negotiations for the repair of the Cemetery chapels and given them a link to this forum discussion so hopefully we may find out more later.

I think your idea of a place for quite meditation is a good idea, but I think it may need some supervision policy in place as it was vandalised in the past. Not everyone has a sense of respect.
Louisa
 
Louisa


It would be nice to have an update on the current situation concerning the Chapels, lets hope you get a response to your email. I do realise that renovation of these properties could lead to more vandalism. Though surely the cemetery has some sort of security that could be utilised, I understand that CCTV technology is very cheap these days and perhaps some form of that could be added to the existing security?
 
The Chapels at Lodge Hill are derelict too, I hope they don't get demolished like the Chapels at Warstone Lane And Key Hill Cemeteries. The Catacombs at Warstone are crumbling too.
rosie.
 
hi rosie
hope you are well are the catocombs really in a bad state and are they really crumbling ?.
they may have been dirty and moss,s looking the last time i was there but what i really seen was there was one or two had been openend up ; my question rosie ; whom did did this and for what reason
And on the subject of security why they cannot get sercurity for these sights,if i remember years ago there was always grave diggers
on sight and and part of there job was to do abit of week end security along with the grave digging
I was told in 1960 that involved that
it would be a crime to destroy thous catocombs at warstone lane i remember the chjapel at key hill ickneild street
it was a lovely building to stand and admire and it was wrong to destroy a such building of history as we know alot of wel known people and important people of birmingham history had been through it
so lets start our campaign in saving our crematorys best wishes rosie ; Alan Astonian
 
Hi Alan, yes there has been fencing and supports around part of the the Catacombs for a long time now. The doors are all sealed but if the ground falls away again who knows what would happen!!
(As regards security, we were stopped by Police once when we were grave-tidying!!)
rosie.
 
All these treasures being left to rot just to keep buildings like that monstrosity of a central library open,just criminal.
 
It's what happens to Empires and all of their truck. It all can't be kept up ...Rome... Greece. You don't go poking about in 'pristine' surroundings there do you. No it's all rubble for the most part. Even though it was really built way in excess of the proverbial whatsit, which most of our truck was not. It's the way of things. Buildings that are used and continue to be viable are more likely to be maintained. Graveyards are the least likely I would think...after close relatives of the interned are dead themselves. I suspect that most never visited anyway. One wonders what the point is. It's an urn for me...that can be used for something after the ash contents are discarded to the wind and sea. Yeah, make it a Lalique like on the Antiques Road Show.
The thing is I suppose that the landscape has been formed by including these old buildings; pretty much like pictures on a wall. It's not that we want to use them so much as just having the ability to look at them. Maybe what we should be thinking about is building something brill' for now; that can include worthy objects of the past in the scheme and be sympathetic to their being included. Not an easy task. I suspect that graveyards are very difficult to handle in this regard.
 
Lots of great buildings mentioned under this thread. Please do email your favourites in as nominations - we don't need more than a few words about what and where they are and why they are at risk plus a photo ideally. You are welcome to nominate more than one.

Sophie (media officer, The Victorian Society)
[email protected]
 
VicSoc

I would have thought that all the buildings mentioned herein would have been well known to the society and that you would have been actively in the process of trying to save them at this time. I Will today nominate The Golden Lion, The Mortuary Chapels Brandwood End Cemetery and the Houses opposite Highgate Park on Moseley Rd. I would also encourage members of the forum to nominate the buildings they have suggested.
 
i shall be doing the same phil...there is absolutely no point in us moaning about the loss and impending loss of our historical buildings unless we all stand up and be counted before its too late to save anything we have left..if we fail at least we can hold our heads up high and say we cared enough to try..
lyn
 
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Lyn

I have done just that and signed with my forum user name and given the Birmingham History Forum as my address, though I am quite wiling to give my details if required.
 
Its refreshing to know that so many people feel interested in retaining so many buildings and the beautiful architecture that goes with them.
 
Brandwood End Cemetery Chapels
I had a very illuminating telephone conversation with Dawn Harding the manager of Brandwood Cemetery and found the following information:

The repair of Brandwood Cemetery Grade II Chapels which are built of terracotta would cost over 3 million pounds. A Heritage Lottery bid has been considered but the obstacles to this are the fact that Birmingham Council would have to match any Lottery funding, which they are not able to do at this time. The second hurdle to the lottery bid is the fact that to qualify for any funding after repair thechapels would have to be back in use.

The chapels have not been used for burial services for many years as people attend their own churches or make their own arrangements for a burial service. Other uses for the repaired chapels have been considered such as a cafeteria or a heritage learning centre but the funding would not support a business.

Even if the chapels are repaired the likelihood of their being used is diminished bythe fact that for over ten years there have been no new burial plots available in Brandwood Cemetery, the sale of which had previously provided some income, most of the older graves prior to the 1950'sare held in perpetuity and the later ones for 75 years and also the older burialground is not reused by Birmingham Council anyway.

Brandwood Lodge which used to hold the cemetery offices is now under refurbishment and will not be used for offices again but will be let out for "suitable community use" for £17 per hour, uses considered are meetings during the daytime hours the cemetery is open.

Members of the public requiring any information about Brandwood cemetery now have to contact Kings Norton Cemetery via a phone kiosk which has been set up opposite Brandwood Lodge, no one is on site to help with location of graves etc.

Brandwood Cemetery main pathways are imminently due to have new tarmac, the starting date has been put back from March 2014 and new confirmation start date is awaited.

The Brandwood Cemetery Friends website 28 Dec 2013 by Jane Edwards states that "BirminghamCouncil withdrew their financial support for a Lottery funding bid relating to the two terracotta chapels at the centre of the cemetery. They are now working with Birmingham Bereavements Department to investigate alternative fund raising but in the meantime will continue with other achievable projects while keeping the chapels at the front of our campaign."

Louisa
 
Phil said:
Lyn

I have done just that and signed with my forum user name and given the Birmingham History Forum as my address, though I am quite wiling to give my details if required.
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Phil & Lyn
I have also signed and sent photographs of the Brandwood chapels to the Victorian Society so lets hope it helps.
Louisa
 
Louisa,

Thank you for the update, but I would have thought that the most apt and obvious use for the chapels would be a crematoria. Surely one of the chapels or even the underground chamber could be converted to suit this purpose. Has this not been considered?
 
Louisa said:
Phil & Lyn
I have also signed and sent photographs of the Brandwood chapels to the Victorian Society so lets hope it helps.
Louisa
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good on you phil and louisa these buildings all need the backing of brummies who really care...i have also just emailed the society and have nominated moseley swimming baths and have included a link to the baths with a photo of it..

lyn
 
VicSoc said:
Lots of great buildings mentioned under this thread. Please do email your favourites in as nominations - we don't need more than a few words about what and where they are and why they are at risk plus a photo ideally. You are welcome to nominate more than one.

Sophie (media officer, The Victorian Society)
[email protected]
Click to expand...


for anyone else who would like to help save our at risk buildings the email address is above...
 
I don't live there any more and so my vote is void I suppose, but I think that this is being tackled the wrong way. Many of the buildings mentioned are half destroyed anyway so why shove good money after bad...or in this case...historically little or next to none. What I think should be done is the choosing of structures to eliminate and level. Better a levelled lot perhaps, than a derelict ghost of the past. So maybe pull it down before it falls on someone. Maybe Detroit has the right idea with their un-occupied houses. Plans for moving ahead with the spaces are more important I think and maybe these should be made by those who will have to use the results in the future.
I have a basement full of stuff that is difficult to let go of but I occasionally do let some go and end up revelling in the space made. This is the same thing. On a larger scale admittedly. What remains has to be viable for usage and this can mean viability as a backdrop only. The Victorian age is long gone and we can't rattle around in it's remains for ever and I suspect it was not nice for most Brummies anyway.
After the above choices, then set about the worthwhile projects. There will be a lot of material to re-use.
 
Rupert

Take a Google walk somewhere like Bath Row and take in all the soulless buildings along there built like boxes stacked up on top of each other. You would have to remove my brain before I lived in one of those. The only buildings left with any soul are the Old Queens Hospital and the building that became the Accident Hospital and the frontage of that is obscured by trees.

If we go on loosing buildings with character at the rate that that we are now, then we have nothing left. I'm sorry that I don't agree with your view that if it is not of historical importance then get rid of it. If that were the case then we would be left with very few buildings of historical importance and loose a lot of very architecturally beautiful buildings.
 
Rupert said:
I don't live there any more and so my vote is void I suppose, but I think that this is being tackled the wrong way. Many of the buildings mentioned are half destroyed anyway so why shove good money after bad...or in this case...historically little or next to none. What I think should be done is the choosing of structures to eliminate and level. Better a levelled lot perhaps, than a derelict ghost of the past. So maybe pull it down before it falls on someone. Maybe Detroit has the right idea with their un-occupied houses. Plans for moving ahead with the spaces are more important I think and maybe these should be made by those who will have to use the results in the future.
I have a basement full of stuff that is difficult to let go of but I occasionally do let some go and end up revelling in the space made. This is the same thing. On a larger scale admittedly. What remains has to be viable for usage and this can mean viability as a backdrop only. The Victorian age is long gone and we can't rattle around in it for ever and I suspect it was not nice for most Brummies anyway.
After the above choices, then set about the worthwhile projects. There will be a lot of material to re-use.
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rupert i think we all know that the victorian age and many ages before it have long gone but what is wrong with wanting to admire those buildings of the age and preserve those we have left..as you no longer live in brum you may not be aware that buildings built in the 60s and 70s are now coming down as they have a far less life expectancy than those built 100 or 200 years ago plus after a few years the designs are deemed old fashioned ...buildings that are being built right now will most likely be gone in another 50 years so where is the history in that...we will have none...we must preserve what we have got because once its gone its gone forever...the history of birmingham and its fine architecture is my passion..its in my blood thats why i joined this forum and i for one would never ever be happy at seeing a perfectly good strong building such as moseley baths demolished to make way for a mc donalds etc..this is just my opinion we all have our way of thinking and i respect everyones...

lyn
 
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error. posted the previous message twice so i have edited it out...
 
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I would think it’s always been the same regarding old for new, the buildings that we now admire probably upset the people that had to be moved out so that they could be built.

Nick
 
Lyn
I would agree with you except that I would emphasise that virtually all buildings built post 1960 were built only to last a few years, as the "architects" were not interested in building anything to last , but only to impress their rather sterile vision on the city, cared nothing for what was already there, and anxious to promote their own image. Rupert is right in saying that if buildings are beyond repair it MIGHT be advisable to demolish them (though what would be think about the Coliseum in Rome), but this should be handled considerately with respect to their history and visual impact. Certainly the impact of all buildings in Birmingham built 1960-90 would, to my mind, be negative.
 
I agree with lyn #50, my cousin loved the old Birmingham Library, it was replaced, and has been replaced again, how long will this one last? Everything seems to come and go so quickly, surely some buildings should be preserved.
rosie.
 
mikejee said:
Lyn
I would agree with you except that I would emphasise that virtually all buildings built post 1960 were built only to last a few years, as the "architects" were not interested in building anything to last , but only to impress their rather sterile vision on the city, cared nothing for what was already there, and anxious to promote their own image. Rupert is right in saying that if buildings are beyond repair it MIGHT be advisable to demolish them (though what would be think about the Coliseum in Rome), but this should be handled considerately with respect to their history and visual impact. Certainly the impact of all buildings in Birmingham built 1960-90 would, to my mind, be negative.
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totally agree mike and thats my point...if we keep on building what i call throw away buildings every few years as time evolves we will have none of historical and architectural value left this is why i am so adament that we preserve what we have left ie our 100 and 200 year old ones...of course if they beyond saving then there is nothing we can do about that...as rosie has said how long will the present library last..my guess not that long and there will come a day in time when folk will be looking up in awe at buildings that have been up for 50 years and think how good that is because at this rate we will have nothing much older than that left standing..

lyn
 
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If only one could pull down un-wanted buildings and move all of the others up a bit...to fill the gaps, but you can't. I suspect that Brum would cover a much smaller area if you could. I wonder if the materials and resources are available to refurbish old buildings. Resources include financing. Materials could come from strategic demolition of some to save others.
You know, I think that this subject could be a super study project for advancing ones engineering doctorial. Just take two buildings, one to demolish and one to save, using the material from the other. For those who know 3D Cad together with scanning packages; it might be a dream project. Well worth the government investing in. It could employ many...technical and labour...for years and, taking one sum zero project at a time, the results of expenditure could be verified as worth continuance or not.
Voices are one thing but without a plan they are not worth much. Technical jobs...what's not to like about that.
I think that the Baths were places to go to once a week for a scrub, because 'under denizens' of the Victorian era had membership in 'the great unwashed' otherwise. Yeah I remember it well...a threadbare towel and little bar of un-latherable soap. So that unsavourable aspect may be not required now. Are there no swimmers left.
 
The Baths where pretty basic to say the least. NOT a pleasant place to go, in my mind, get in and get out and try to get warm, but right across from my school, the building is well worth saving I think. Looking at Brum now like a recent visit to London, what a shame that all that workmanship was destroyed to be replaced by computer drawn JUNK! John Crump OldBrit. Parker, Colorado USA
 
Its amazing that all over the world they are digging up buildings from the past spending millions doing it. Brum is doing the opposite they are spending millions tearing down buildings, to replace with space age garbage Make one wonder. PROGRESS? John Crump Parker, Co USA
 
oldbrit said:
Its amazing that all over the world they are digging up buildings from the past spending millions doing it. Brum is doing the opposite they are spending millions tearing down buildings, to replace with space age garbage Make one wonder. PROGRESS? John Crump Parker, Co USA
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couldnt agree with you more john...my son in law is a young american architect and he has been over here a few times now and has seen our old buildings ..he is so impressed with them and marvels at the them..as he said the best materials used..great architects..the craftmanship and skill used to build them and the time it must have taken...he has also seen photographs of some of the buildings that have been demolished..he shakes his head and says WHY ???

lyn
 
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