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I like this 1783 drawing of Bradford Street, think it's a fascinating because it's got so much going on in it. I recognise St. Martin's (to the right I think?) but which church is that directly ahead? Viv
I was going to say St Pauls, because that sits on a hill, but if you look just in front of the church there is the round building with the conical roof. It appears in the Samuel Lines painting and was on New Street.
So, I think that the church in the distnace must be Christchurch.
Yes Neville I think it's a toll gate and the road looks cobbled to me, so probably had quite a bit of traffic. Leslam, I've had a look at the Samuel Lines picture, and yes it does look like Christ Church. On this drawing it looks so big and out of proportion, but maybe that's because it's on top of a hill. So the church on the very far right must be St. Phillip's. Roughly whereabouts do you think the river is Mike? Viv.
There's a reference to Phyllis Nicklin's photos in post #4 above. Here's one from the site taken in 1968 which could well be a similar view, perhaps. Definitely less of a slope if it's a similar view. Viv.
I agree the large church in the distance is Christchurch. I di not mean you could see the Rea in th epicture, just that it follows the boundary. you can see this from the 1839 map. I am certain the tollgate is where the boundaty (in red) crosses the road. The blue river by it is the Rea
Thanks Mike, I see it now. Your map really helps. Looking at it I'd say the view in the 1783 drawing might be much closer to St. Martin's than I first thought. The road in the drawing veers off to the right and Bradford St on the map is very straight until you reach the point where there's a #7 on the map. That's assuming the earlier course of the road was followed. It might also explain the large appearance of Christ Church. But that doesn't explain the position of the toll gate, as I agree with Mike that this is most likely to be on the boundary. Viv.
I have looked at this picture many times before and did come to a different conclusion about it but I am sure you are right. I would have expected Christchurch to be placed higher than in the drawing though and not so large as shown. Still licence is always required and both churches seem to be in the right direction. Looking at, even todays view, it just feels like Bradford Street does it not. Yes there is a turn in the end as it goes up to Moat Row.
Agree Alan. It would be interesting to find out more about the kilns. They wouldn't be brick kilns would they? Also, Neville's suggestion in post #13 about the slope of the road was correct! Here's an extract from Langford's 'A century of Birmingham Life'. It says: "October 21 1805. It gives us pleasure to observe the great improvements which are making in Bradford-street, by removing the hill at the top and carrying the soil to the lower part thereof. We think it proper, however, in order to prevent accidents, to recommend travellers and the public in general to avoid passing with horses or carriages along that part of Deritend till a safe and secure road is completed" Viv.