• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
  • HI folks the server that hosts the site completely died including the Hdd's and backups.
    Luckily i create an offsite backup once a week! this has now been restored so we have lost a few days posts.
    im still fixing things at the moment so bear with me and im still working on all images 90% are fine the others im working on now
    we are now using a backup solution

Bishop Vesey and his Grammar School.

Thylacine

master brummie
On Wendy's Old Swan thread ( https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/the-old-swan.8314/) , she posted a splendid 1896 picture of "The Old Swan" in Sutton Coldfield, with Bishop Vesey's Grammar School (BVGS) looming above and behind. Since BVGS was "my" school for nearly four years (1961-1964), that picture brought back lots of memories (both good and bad!). Further research on the good Bishop and the school he founded in the 16th century is revealing a very interesting story. So I am beginning this thread for a fuller discussion of the subject.

I will be posting from time to time on some of the historical (and other) aspects of the topic. All contributions are very welcome, especially from former students ("Old Veseyans"), staff, parents and visitors.

To start the ball rolling, pictured below are:y!).
[1] John Oswald Newton (born 1924), who was at BVGS in 1934-1940. He is pictured in school uniform in 1934. He later (1970) became head of the Department of Nuclear Physics at the Australian National University.
[2] Cat Deeley (born 1976), who was at BVGS in 1993. She is well known as a model, actress and TV presenter.
 

Attachments

  • John Oswald Newton  as schoolboy.jpg
    John Oswald Newton as schoolboy.jpg
    85.2 KB · Views: 1
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi Peter: Do you remember a chap called Keith McCulloch, who was at Bishop Vesey GS in the early to mid l960's? He was Valedictorian in his final year which I am not quite sure
which year that was. He is my cousin. My brother lives several hundred yards from Bishop Vesey GS and on recent visits I have walked by there countless times. I think the Old Swan was a restaurant once. I have walked down the road behind the GS and had a good look around the back. The photo Wendy posted showing the Old Swan and the school looks very much like the view today. There are a couple of sites for Old Veseyans on line.
 
Thanks for your contributions.

Aidan: more will be revealed about James Eccleston (headmaster 1842-1849), who transported himself to Tasmania to avoid imprisonment for debt. Be patient!

Jennyann: I don't recognise your cousin's name, but he was probably ahead of me (I was half way through fourth form when we emigrated). If he was a prefect, he may well have had dealings with me!
 
[I'll deal with James Eccleston now, since his story is interesting.]

James Eccleston (c 1817-1850; sometimes spelled "Ecclestone") graduated Bachelor or Arts from Trinity College, Dublin. He was appointed headmaster of BVGS (then called Sutton Coldfield Grammar School) in 1842 while still in his twenties. He was a classical scholar and an historian, and in 1847 published An Introduction to English Antiquities (London: Longman and Co, 1847). Whether or not he was in real danger of imprisonment for debt (as Wikipedia alleges), he certainly experienced financial difficulties, as the following report explains:
London Gazette (19 June 1849).

The following PRISONERS, whose Estates and Effects have been vested in the Provisional Assignee by Order of the Court for Relief of Insolvent Debtors, and whose Petitions and Schedules, duly filed, have been severally referred and transmitted to the County Courts hereinafter mentioned, pursuant to the Statute in that behalf, are ordered to be brought up before the Judges of the said Courts respectively, as herein set forth, to be dealt with according to Law: ... Before the Judge of the County Court of Warwickshire, holden at Warwick, on Friday the 29th day of June 1849. James Eccleston, of Sutton, in the county of Warwick, Schoolmaster.
Later in 1849 he was appointed rector (headmaster) of the High School of Hobart Town (in place of James Anthony Froude who was in trouble for publishing an "infidel book" entitled The Nemesis of Faith). Eccleston arrived with his family at Hobart aboard the "Success" on 20 November 1849. Scarcely had the school year begun when James Eccleston died of "brain fever" on 8 March 1850. His funeral procession was a grand affair, attended by 47 carriages, and he was interred in St Johns churchyard, New Town, Hobart. He left a wife and two or three children, for whose benefit £1,000 was subscribed by the public.

[Source: Hobart newspapers, National Library of Australia website.]

Pictured below:
[1] His headstone in St Johns cemetery, New Town, Hobart. It is not very legible, but appears to read:
Erected by the Council of the High School of Hobart Town to the memory of James Eccleston B A, Rector of the High School, who departed this life on the 8th March 1850, Aged 32 Years.
[2] A transcription of a memorial stone in Sutton Coldfield churchyard (which gives his age as 34). Two children who predeceased him are apparently buried there. [Notes and Queries 5 July 1902.]​
 
Last edited:
Re the Eccleston children:
James Lester Eccleston, b. reg. 1st q. 1846 Aston vol 16 page 229; d.reg 2nd q. 1849 Aston vol 16 page 163
Lucinda Maria Eccleston, d. reg. 2nd q. 1849 Aston vol 16 page 163. Birth may be Mary Ann Eccleston, 4th q. 1840 West Bromwich vol 18 page 558.
 
Bishop Who?

The eponym and founder of BVGS is today known as John Vesey (c 1462-1554), but his family name was Harman or Hermon. The origin of the name "Vesey" is something of a mystery. Many sources refer to his father as "William Harman alias Vesey" or something similar, but the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (ODNB) states:
[John Harman's] adoption of the surname Veysey dates from about this time [1498], perhaps as a compliment to John Veysey (died 1492), an Oxford graduate and London city rector, who came from the west midlands and whose will made bequests to Harman and to his brother.
Observe that ODNB spells the name "Veysey", but nearly all other modern sources have "Vesey". The name has appeared in many other forms over the years, including: Veisy, Vesey, Vesy, Veysey, Veysy and Voysey.

Bishop Vesey of Exeter is fondly remembered by Suttonians for his generosity to his birthplace. He was also very kind to his family. ODNB again:
The bishop was closely attached to his family and to his birthplace. He promoted his sisters' sons, John Gibbons (died 1537) and William Leveson (died 1582), to the chancellorship of Exeter Cathedral and, in Gibbons's case, to be his vicar-general. A third relative, William Veysey (died circa 1545), was made apparitor-general of the diocese, a fourth, Henry Squier (died 1582), archdeacon of Barnstaple, and another connection, James Leveson, farmed the revenues of the church of Wolverhampton. Veysey was also a notable benefactor of Sutton Coldfield. In 1528 he secured for the town royal grants of corporate status and of the nearby free chase and park, in return for an annual rent of £58. He improved the parish church with new nave aisles, chancel chapels, organs, and a steeple. He gave a meadow to support fifteen poor widows and, between 1540 and 1543, endowed a free grammar school. He also built the moot hall and prison, laid out the market place, paved the town, gave pasturage in the chase to the local poor, erected fifty-one stone houses, and provided new bridges at Curdworth and Water Orton. Moor Hall was reconstituted as a brick house for his own residence, which passed after his death to John, the eldest son of his brother Hugh. He further attempted to establish the manufacture of Devonshire kerseys in Sutton, but this, according to his younger contemporary the Exeter historian John Hooker, "in the end came to small effect".
This account dates the establishment of BVGS to 1540-1543, as opposed to many sources which give 1527. On this point, I believe that ODNB is correct.

[More to come.]
 
I have seen it written that it is likely he was brought up in the household of distant relations of his mother, the Veseys, whose name he adopted as his own, but have no proof of this but at least a third possibility. I believe his mother was Joan SQUIER (dau. of Henry Squier of Handsworth) or Squire https://www.archive.org/stream/visitationcount01britgoog#page/n130/mode/2up/search/harman

"Bell's Cathedrals: The Cathedral Church of Exeter" by Percy Addleshaw BA (Oxon) 1921 states: "... He founded the town of Sutton Coleshill, now Sutton Coldfield, and introduced there the making of kersies. On this enterprise he spent the larger part of his fortune. ...."

Dictionary of National Biography states "...He built a free grammar school (probably the building called St. Mary's Hall, opposite the southeast corner of the churchyard), and endowed it with money, as well as with the dwelling-house for the master, which was demolished in 1832..." I am not sure if that is the same building as in post-1 or not
 
Last edited:
Thanks for all the information and relevant links, Aidan. William Dugdale (1656) devoted eight pages of densely packed information to Sutton and its history. The illustrations of the good Bishop's tomb and other memorials to himself and his family (from Holy Trinity church) are found on page 669 (reproduced below). These two "cartoons" of John Vesey may well be the only extant images of him.
 
Last edited:
When was BVGS founded?

The BVGS website announces "Founded 1527", and this date is commonly repeated. According to Wikipedia:
The first foundation deed set up by Bishop John Vesey in 1527 provided an endowment from property income of £7 a year and twenty-one people were appointed Trustees to manage the school and pay a fit and proper person to teach Grammar and Rhetoric.
The original trustees were lax in their duties, and nothing happened for many years. Dugdale (1656) continues the story:
And whereas by the said feoffees not performance of what was so ordained, and for certain other causes, the said settlement thereof became void in law, he being in full power to dispose otherwise of the same, out of his wonted pious regard to the publick benefit of the commonwealth, and this his native country, made a feoffment of divers lands, lying within the precincts of this parish, unto the Warden and Fellowship of Sutton, bearing date 1 October 1543 to the intent that the said Warden and Fellowship, and their successors, with the profits thence arising, should find a certain learned layman fit and skilful to teach grammar and rhetoric, within the same parish; who together with his scholars ought daily to say the psalm of De Profundis for the souls of their benefactors: and if such person could not be found, then to provide certain skilful artificers to teach their trades as abovesaid, or to distribute the rents and profits of those lands, for the discharge of tallage, taxes, or other impositions made by the King's authority, upon the poor people of the parish; or else to be employed for the marriage of poor maidens, or orphans, or to some other charitable secular use, within this Lordship of Sutton. Whereupon the said Warden and Fellowship, by their public instrument dated 6 April 1544, constituted one John Savage schoolmaster there for life, granting him an annuity of ten pounds per annum issuing out of those lands.
(Wikipedia dates these events to 1540.)

John Leland, who travelled through Sutton at some time in 1535-1543 (it would be nice to know the exact year he was there), wrote in his Itinerary:
The byshope hathe also institutyd there a gramer-schole and endweyd it with lands.
Leland spells "Sutton" five different ways (Southeton, Southetonne, Southton, Southtown, Sowthtowne) and "Coldfield" three (Colfeld, Colefeeld, Colefeld) in the space of a few pages! His most complete form of the name of the town is "Southeton apon Colefeeld".
 
T...I found a somewhat larger (but monochrome) reproduction of the 1824 picture of "Birmingham From Sutton Coldfield" by Peter De Wint (1784-1849) in Graphic Illustrations of Warwickshire (Birmingham: Beilby and Co, 1829).

Of the towers in the distance (about 8 miles?) I think the lasge spire to the left must be St Martin's, the middle cuppolaed building is St Philips of course, and I wonder if the three towers to the right are Aston Hall with Aston Parish Church hard by?
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
Name Spelling

Leland spells "Sutton" five different ways (Southeton, Southetonne, Southton, Southtown, Sowthtowne) and "Coldfield" three (Colfeld, Colefeeld, Colefeld) in the space of a few pages! His most complete form of the name of the town is "Southeton apon Colefeeld".

Shakespeare had a go at it in 1597/8.

Falstaff (on "a public road near Coventry"):

"Bardolph, get thee before to Coventry. Fill me a bottle of sack;
our soldiers shall march through; we'll to Sutton Co'fil' tonight."​
Henry IV, Part 1, Act IV, Scene 2.

Chris
 
Last edited:
(One of) Wetherspoon's pubs in Sutton Coldfield is called the Bottle of Sack for this reason. They would have needed that for an extra 20mile march. Sack was a Spanish wine, which was of a strong, rough, dry kind (in France - vin sec, whence the name), and therefore usually sweetened and mixed with spice and mulled or burnt. It became a common name for all the stronger white wines of the South.
 
The Succession of BVGS Headmasters 1544-2011.

The person in charge of BVGS was originally called "schoolmaster" or simply "master". Later [when?] the term "headmaster" was adopted, and today [since when?] it is "headteacher". The dates represent the period of service as headmaster. Years in green are approximate, and in blue "guesstimates":
Nicholas Mogg 1527-1535 (conjectural).
John Savage 1540-1546.
Laurence Nowell 1546-1548.
John Heath 1570-1600 (some time in 1548-1633).
John Mitchell 1633-1639.
William Hill 1639-1647.
John Elley 1647-1659.
William Chancy 1659-1687.
William Saunders 1687-1724.
Paul Lowe 1724-1764.
William Webb 1764-1817.
Charles Barker 1817-1842.
James Eccleston 1843-1849.
Josiah Wright 1849-1863.
Albert Smith 1863-1902.
Herbert Jerrard 1902-1926.
Richard William Wright 1926-1929.
Abel Sylvanus Jones 1929-1947.
Geoffrey John Cross 1947-1965.
Arthur John Johnson 1965-1974.
Philip James Nelson 1974-1975 (acting).
Reginald John Harvey 1975-1988.
Marie Elaine Clarke 1989-2005.
David Iddon 2005-.​
[Source: Kerry Osbourne's History of Bishop Vesey's Grammar School (two volumes).]
 
Last edited:
The 1881 census shows the headmaster Rev. Albert Smith resident with his family, a second master Major Dunn, six staff including domestic servants and ten boarding boys. It appears he was headmaster at least between 1871-1901 as he appears in those censuses with a similar retinue.
 
Last edited:
A Sixteenth Century Old Veseyan.

So far, the only Old Veseyan of the 16th century to whom I have found reference is Leicestershire lad Robert Burton (1577-1640). He was the author of The Anatomy of Melancholy (Oxford: Henry Cripps, 1621), which became a best-seller and was published in numerous editions. As he tells us in the 1883 edition (page 304):
[Our] towns are generally bigger in the woodland than the fieldone [field land], more frequent and populous, and gentlemen more delight to dwell in such places. Sutton Coldfield in Warwickshire (where I was once a grammar scholar) may be sufficient witness, which stands, as Camden notes, loco ingrato et sterili [in an unpleasant and barren place], but in an excellent air, and full of all manner of pleasures.
He must have attended BVGS about 1590. Pictured below:
[1] Frontispiece (1883 edition).
[2] Title Page (1652 edition) including a portrait of the author ("Democritus Junior").
 
The Second Headmaster of BVGS.

The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (ODNB) contains this biography of the second (head)master of BVGS:
Laurence Nowell (c 1516 – 1576) was the third son of John Nowell (died 1526) of Read Hall, Whalley, Lancashire, and his second wife, Elizabeth, daughter of Robert Kay of Rochdale. After entering Brasenose College, Oxford, in 1536, he migrated to Cambridge University to study logic, graduating BA in 1542. Oxford incorporated this BA and awarded him an MA in 1544. Two years later he became master of the grammar school at Sutton Coldfield, Warwickshire. In 1550 the town's corporation, as the school's patrons, charged him in chancery with neglect of duty, but he appealed to the privy council, which issued an order forbidding the warden and fellowship of Sutton to remove him from office. In November 1550 Nicholas Ridley, bishop of London, ordained him deacon. Upon Queen Mary's accession he took shelter with Sir John Perrot in Pembrokeshire and later joined his brother Alexander Nowell on the continent, though it is not known where Laurence finally took refuge. In 1558, when he returned home, he was promoted archdeacon of Derby, and in 1560 dean of Lichfield. In the convocation of 1563 he voted with Alexander, now dean of St Paul's, to modify church ceremonies. That year he obtained the prebend of Ferring in Chichester Cathedral and the rectories of Haughton and Drayton Basset in Staffordshire. In 1566 he received a prebend in York Minster, and in 1567 pleaded with Archbishop Matthew Parker on behalf of two nonconformists.

Nowell married Mary Glover, a widow with two sons, and between 1567 and 1574 they had four daughters and five sons, including his namesake heir who matriculated at Brasenose College in 1590. With Alexander, Laurence served as executor of their brother Robert's will in 1569. The next year, he denied the charge of Peter Morwent, a prebendary of Lichfield, that he had made seditious speeches against Queen Elizabeth and Robert Dudley, earl of Leicester. In 1575 he bought an estate in Sheldon and some lands in Coleshill, Warwickshire. In his will, dated 17 October 1576, he named Alexander and his half-brother John Towneley his overseers. He was dead by 22 November, when his successor as dean, George Boleyn, was installed. He was probably buried at Weston, Derbyshire.
William Dugdale (1656) dates his demise as headmaster to 1547 rather than 1550 and adds some interesting details:
[It] seems that his dexterity and diligence in teaching scholars, fell far short of what they expected; for it appears that soon after his settling here [Sutton], the Corporation took great exceptions at him for the neglect of his school, and exhibited articles against him in the Chancery; whereupon, after the sitting of a Commission, and sundry depositions taken, he procured letters from the Council Table, admonishing them that they should not go about his removal, except any notable crime could be proved against him; so that in conclusion, finding such slender esteem amongst them, he accepted of his arrears, and a gratuity of ten pounds, whereof the said Bishop of Exeter gave five marks; and in 1547 resigned; so that his stay in this place, was not much more than a year.
[We should probably accept ODNB's date of 1550, because it was Retha Warnicke (the author of the ODNB biography) who in the 1970s first disentangled the story of our Laurence Nowell from that of his better known namesake cousin Laurence Nowell (c 1515 – c 1571). This cousin was a pioneering scholar of the Old English language, and the earliest known owner (from 1563) of the only surviving manuscript (the Nowell Codex or more formally Cotton Vitellius A.xv) containing the Old English poem Beowulf.]
 
G J Cross (BVGS headmaster from 1947).

During my time at BVGS (1961 – 1964), the man very much in charge was Geoffrey John Cross (2 February 1910 – 1999). I remember him very well, as he once had occasion to give me four of the best on the backside for stealing a stick of solder from the metalwork room. The punishment was effective: I never stole solder again! Here is a short sketch of his life and career, based on what I have been able to glean from internet sources. As usual, corrections and additions are welcome.
G J Cross was the son of Francis John Kynaston Cross (1865 – 31 December 1950) and Eleanor Mary Cross née Phillimore (4 February 1876 – 1949), who were married on 17 September 1895. His siblings were: Philip Kynaston Cross (1898 – 1949); Michael Robert Cross (1899 – 23 March 1969); Christopher Cross (born 1902); and Hannah Cross (1908 – 2008), a successful barrister.

He was educated at Winchester and New College, Oxford. He taught classics and English at Manchester Grammar School 1932 – 1941. He was headmaster at the King's School, Ely, Cambridgeshire, 1942 – 1946, and began his appointment as headmaster of BVGS in 1947. Later he was chairman of the Oxfordshire Education Committee.

He was the author of: The Triumph of Athens (1935); Prologue and Epilogue to Hegel (1937); First Form Latin (1937); Second Form Latin (1937); Third Form Latin (1938); and The Meaning of the Crucifixion (1940). Apparently his Latin textbooks were quite progressive for their time, and included crosswords and a serialized murder mystery!
[Can anyone find a picture of Mr Cross? Added note: see post #33.]
 
Last edited:
Thanks for this very interesting thread, Thylacine.

As it happens I was there, from 1944 to 1954, a period of attendance which was probably a jointly held record and one which it has been impossible for any pupil to have matched since. An accident of history.

And on the subject of history, I note one or two omissions in your list of Headmasters (or, more accurately these days, Headteachers) and will try and correct that shortly. I also have one or two images of Geoffrey Cross but none of them uncovered so far is good enough to post. I shall keep looking.

(There's a bit about wartime BVGS which I have put online here).

Chris
 
For many years I took the sixth form option group who wished to train for their bronze medallion life saving award or would examine those who had been trained by someone else. When that was out of the way I would do a bit of syncronised swimming with the girls and often the lads would join in for a laugh. Well I think it was for a laugh?. Jean.
 
Thanks, Chris and Jean, for your contributions.

Chris: I look forward to updating the headmaster-headteacher list. Apparently during Charles Barker's time BVGS enrolment fell as low as a single pupil!

Jean: that was important training. Can you tell us when that was?
 
Jean, your recollection of teaching swimming at BVGS brings back an unpleasant memory (I'm sure your methods were more refined!).

The year: 1961. The place: the BVGS unheated outdoor swimming pool. The first form was to be taught to swim. We were all lined up along the edge with our backs to the pool, and the "teacher" walked along the line and pushed us into the water. It took me many years to get over the resulting terror of water, and I didn't learn to swim properly until after we emigrated to Australia in 1964. All's well that ends well, though, and I was soon body surfing with the best of them at Sydney's many fine beaches.
 
A Seventeenth Century Old Veseyan.

Francis Willughby (1635-1672) of Middleton Hall, Warwickshire, was a pupil at BVGS about 1645-1650. He later graduated from Trinity College, Cambridge, and became a pioneering ornithologist and ichthyologist. His best-known book, Ornithologiæ, was published posthumously in 1676 by his teacher and friend John Ray (1627-1705).

Pictured below:
[1] Francis Willughby (courtesy of Wikipedia).
[2] The title page of Ornithologiæ.
[3] One of the plates from Ornithologiæ.
 
Re: G J Cross (BVGS headmaster from 1947).

During my time at BVGS (1961 – 1964), the man very much in charge was Geoffrey John Cross (2 February 1910 – 1999). [Can anyone find a picture of Mr Cross?]

Geoffrey John Cross (1910-1999) was headmaster at BVGS from 1947 until 1965.

He was the third son of a family with an estate at Aston Tirrold in Berkshire. As the third son the normal options for a professional career were the military or teaching. Geoffrey Cross chose the latter after having been educated at Winchester and New College, Oxford where he took First Class Honours in "Greats" (Latin, Greek and Ancient History).

He taught at Manchester Grammar School and was subsequently Headmaster at King's School, Ely. On the retirement of Abel Sylvanus Jones at BVGS in 1947 he was appointed Headmaster there at the relatively early age of 37. He resigned in 1965 after steering the School to many achievements and devoted the rest of his life to the family estate and local service in Berkshire.

He published a number of books including school textbooks which were, not surprisingly, in use in the School at the time. Many pupils will have come into contact with him, as I did, since one of his practices was said to be the teaching of Latin to all the School's first-year pupils so that he knew each boy in the School personally.

A quite remarkable man.

Chris
 
Abel Sylvanus Jones (BVGS headmaster 1930-1947).

The splendidly named Abel Sylvanus Jones was headmaster of BVGS in 1930-1947.

After attending the King Henry VIII Grammar School (Abergavenny) in 1892-1900, he moved on to Cardiff University and graduated Bachelor of Arts. He appears to have been an historian: he is listed among the members of the Dugdale Society in 1935.

[Source: The Gobannian (January 1930).]

[Chris, are you able to add to this sketchy account?]
 
Last edited:
1901 census has Abel S Jones age 17 at "The Manse", Mount St, Abergavenny with parents William S Jones, 46, a Presbyterian Minister; Elizabeth A Jones, 40; and siblings Eleanor A Jones, 15; Winifred D Jones, 12; Gwladys M Jones, 9; Ceridwen Jones, 9; and grandfather William D Jones, 75.
Abel's occupation is "Student, Cardiff University".
 
Back
Top