Birmingham Syphon Company Limited

[emaxwright]

Does any one know anything about this company it was in Bordesley St. Meriden St Birmingham. my husbands family have a connection their name is Hartill. we think two brothers were directors of this company any light on the subject appreciated .

 

[pkh]

Does any one know anything about this company it was in Bordesley St. Meriden St Birmingham. my husbands family have a connection their name is Hartill. we think two brothers were directors of this company any light on the subject appreciated .

i worked there 1958-62. no idea about that name. directors then were owen adams,lance cooper .col.bradley.they sold it to clayton bros of london

 

[alisonkayak]

i worked there 1958-62. no idea about that name. directors then were owen adams,lance cooper .col.bradley.they sold it to clayton bros of london

My grandfather was Owen Adams, long deceased unfortunately. Would appreciate any info on his his time as a director at the Birmingham syphon company. Many thanks, ali

 

[ColinB]

Have you seen this on the Made in Birmingham site.

https://madeinbirmingham.blogspot.co.uk/2009/10/made-in-birmingham-2009-newsletter.html

Colin

 

[Suze]

Hello...anybody ever heard of this company please Thanks
Suze

 

[Astonian]

They was Birmingham,s first soda water bottles and they was square ,I believe
Used in licence premises used by the toffs

 

[Dave89]

Hi Suze,

Birmingham Syphon was a Victorian company which bottled soda water into syphons which
they bought in from glass manufacturers. As Alan says, they tended to be used in upper class
establishments for whisky and soda, etc. I believe they also produced other soft drinks.

I think they may have gone out of business by the middle 60's, as I remember when I was at R. White's
we sometimes used to refill their syphons which had come in with the empties from clubs etc.
Although I worked in the office there, on one occasion I was asked to help on the syphon
filling machine as they were short staffed. Although the machine was guarded, you couldn't
really prepare yourself for the bang when many of them exploded!
The syphon tops were not removed for filling, they were refilled upside down through the nozzle.

Kind regards

Dave

 

[Suze]

They was Birmingham,s first soda water bottles and they was square ,I believe
Used in licence premises used by the toffs

Thanks for info Astonian...do you know where the factory was?

 

[Suze]

Hi Suze,

Birmingham Syphon was a Victorian company which bottled soda water into syphons which
they bought in from glass manufacturers. As Alan says, they tended to be used in upper class
establishments for whisky and soda, etc. I believe they also produced other soft drinks.

I think they may have gone out of business by the middle 60's, as I remember when I was at R. White's
we sometimes used to refill their syphons which had come in with the empties from clubs etc.
Although I worked in the office there, on one occasion I was asked to help on the syphon
filling machine as they were short staffed. Although the machine was guarded, you couldn't
really prepare yourself for the bang when many of them exploded!
The syphon tops were not removed for filling, they were refilled upside down through the nozzle.

Kind regards

Dave

Interesting...and lively too! Do bars/clubs still have syphons on the bar
I wonder what would have been in earthenware containers ?
Suze

 

[Astonian]

Hi Suze
In the early years of the twenty through to the forty to early fifths there was Square ones
And round the mid fifty,s onwards they brought in the fancy round ones
Which also included what Dave as said you could not take the top off them to refill them
And they was sold on a returned Deposit for the bottle to whom you ever bought it from
There was an indepentant note stating please return for deposit,
I cannot recall the valued deposit it stated on,
Dave, on the subject of R . whites I recall a factory or there ware house in western rd
Hockley. I used to work for a company Just passed there factory
In machine bumping up and down the country
But as you may know or not know that I was born and raised on Lichfield road
Aston, and my father was born in George road erdington
Then they lived in Parliament street ,then finished in whitehouse street
Next to the chinns family, but I had put this bit on the forum over ten years ago
About my aunty Maud whom was my father's sister,
And one day as a little kid was being taken to my aunty winns Phelps
By my Aunty Maud ,and we sat on the very first seat on the long seat
By the conductor as we travelled on the number eight bus, coming from
Aston cross we travelled down to Hockley brook
Going Down Gerrard street we stopped at a bus stop more or less
Possible the one before villa street and farm street
And these house looked like the big Victorian houses with habit of a long garden
My aunty Maud nudge me and said Alan, you see that house there ,which was where
The bus had stopped outside ,it had habit of a long paths and some steps on the front door
She said your old grand father made a lemonade. Formula,
And by given my age and my fathers age said he made the formula
I would have said early 1800/ 1900.s period in the back garden shed
And said he sold it to Mr R, Whites, and I have never forgotten it
I suppose in those days people was always trying things like sqoush
But my grand mother was married to some one else
Before my dad came along I presume I did find a name and he was a
Soda water maker ,
And ovisiuosly incrediants have change since those days in making
From the pro/type but I always by R, whites lemonade its a very good
Taste indeed and may I had when I am feeling flue /cold symptoms
My remedy is boil the R, whites lemonade and two tabs
And it works a treat,
Size I have yet to come across any pub bars that still use the Symons
Over the years I have ran many a clubs and pubs across the country
And rare it may be very afew. Found in the cellars of such establishments
They would be the round ones the very first in my time they was a square ones
But as Dave said by the sixtys these slowly disappeared
Best wishes Alan,,,,, Astonian,,,

 

[sospiri]

Suze,

Birmingham Syphon's premises were in Meriden Street, but I can't tell you exactly when they ceased trading. In 1929 and twice in 1934 the Board made applications to the High Court to reduce the capital from £20,000 to £15,000 and I presume that the third application was as a result of the two previous applications being opposed and rejected. This information comes from the London Gazette, but nothing further is listed for the business. I'll check the newspapers beyond that date for any further news and post it if there is.

Maurice

 

[sospiri]

Suze,

The newspaper search didn't reveal much except that the company was in business in 1885 at a different address (Birmingham Daily Post 26 February 1885 - see clip below). That same year the employees donated 10s. 6d to the Queens Hospital (BDP 5 October 1885). According to the BDP dated 3 May 1887, the company made an important contribution to the May Day Procession. The BDP dated 23 November 1888 records a patent filed by Henry Goffe on behalf of the Company was made for "aerated water bottles or vessels to be used in case of need for fire extinguishing". And there's a sad tale in the BDP dated 28 July 1893 - see clip below. Nothing else of importance beyond that, I'm afraid.

Maurice

 

[Suze]

Hello Alan and Maurice.....Ace detectives !
Thanks for all the help stories and info

Keep it coming ..

Such a fascinating site....turns up all sorts of long forgotten info

Thanks Suze

 

[Suze]

Just following on Alan...was R Whites a Birmingham company?
Suze

 

[mikejee]

They were a London company, but had a works in brum from around 1900

 

[Dave89]

Hi,
I think it was around 1964 that R Whites bought out W. Lant of Bond Street Coventry, who also had a
distribution depot at St James Mill Rd Northampton. The three midland branches then went under the
name of R. White Lant Ltd., and Birmingham supplied the other 2 branches with aerated drinks.
All non aerated drinks were brought to Birmingham from the London area.
Kind regards
Dave

 

[Suze]

I wonder if anyone has a photo of the building tucked away anywhere?

There's a challenge for someone......

Suze

 

[joe guttridge]

Hello...anybody ever heard of this company please Thanks
Suze

I am pretty sure my mothers family, surname Hartill, owned this firm in the late 19th/early 20th century. Mum always talked of "uncle Cliff" as the actual proprietor. My own grandfather delivered products for them & reputedly met his wife to be during an epidemic in the city(around 1900, perhaps a little later). Something seemed to have happened just before the 2nd war & the family shares were sold then. Some accountsof the company state that Luk Bradley, the son of a local philanthropist, owned the company as early as the late 1890's, but my Aunt thought her sister actually sold her shares to him after her fathers death, which was considerably later.There was always a bit of suspicion about the sale of the company in the family. At one time I did some census searching & Luke Bradley was lsited somewhere as an employee or associate of one of the Hartills at one time, I recall. A bit of research here would be interesting.

 

[sospiri]

Joe,

I'm not sure whether any of these names mean anything to you, but it is the only newspaper article I can find that includes the names Luke Bradley and Hartill - but no mention of what sort of company. I've also included the entry from the Probate Index.

Maurice

 

[sospiri]

Joe,

And finally, because this could be drifting right off the original topic, here's a couple of London Gazette entries, one earlier than the rest and again nothing to do with syphons, though there is a Birmingham link!

Maurice

 

[joe guttridge]

I think I got the connection between luke bradley & one of the hartills from one of the census returns of around the end of the 19th century. Possibly he was living with them, I dont recall. ButI think a John Henry Hartill was a "flour agent",born in 1837 in the Oldbury area wasone of "ours".His wifes maiden name was Cook, which ties in with one of my uncles (or was it my grandfather?) having cook as a middle name. Mum always talked of the family coming from Oldbury, also of the family being millers, also running either the meriden hotel at stonebridge or the stonebridge hotel at meriden. She also used to say that her father was born in a blue brick house in Tipton or Great Bridge. Anyway John Henry may have had a son Harry Clifford around 1887, which would tie in with being my mums uncle (she was born in 1914). If you are interested, I know a lot of the stories of this family, but I am not much of an archivist or researcher!

 

[joe guttridge]

Joe,

And finally, because this could be drifting right off the original topic, here's a couple of London Gazette entries, one earlier than the rest and again nothing to do with syphons, though there is a Birmingham link!

Maurice

Are you still active regarding this topic? During the coronavirus lockdown I have been doing a bit more digging around the Hartill family & could let you have some of the detail, if it is of interest?

 

[sospiri]

Hi Joe,

I'm always for keeping threads active, even though some of the contributors move on or pass away. A Florence HARTILL 1897 - 1960 married Arthur DORMAN, one of my late wife's distant relations I see, but I have no idea how common the HARTILL surname is in Birmingham. Feel free to impart your information here and if it gets too far removed from the Birmingham Syphon thread, we can always start a fresh thread.

Maurice

 

[joe guttridge]

Birmingham Syphon co & the hartill family. A little more possibly relevant information, probably explaining how John Harry Hartill came to be in the brewery trade. Firstly, it is a fact that mums family have often incorporated cheshire into the names of their children. Secondly it looks as though Walter Showell, a very prominent man in 19th century midlands brewing, married into the family. I found this on the web (my underline):

"Walter Showell, the Oldbury brewer, was born on 26 September 1832. He was baptized in St Martin’s Birmingham on 25 Oct 1832. He undoubtedly had a difficult childhood. His father, also Walter Showell, died when he was only three in 1835. His mother, Eliza Ann Breakspear, remarried in 1840. In the 1841 census the eight year old Walter can be found in the household of his Aunt, Mary Ann Hands. It seems he was brought up in the Hands household rather than with his mother, who inherited a family from her new widower husband. Walter trained as a Chemist and Druggist before entering the Brewing trade. His uncle, Thomas Showell, is listed as a licensed Victualler in the 1851 census so there were strong family connections with the trade. His grandfather Joseph Showell had, for many years, run the Bull’s Head in Price Street, Birmingham

Walter Showell married Sarah Cheshire Hartill on 2 May 1854. She came from a family of farmers and maltsters. They had three sons and ten daughters. His sons Charles and Walter (Uncle Walle) eventually took over the brewing business.

 

[sospiri]

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the additional information, but we still haven't proved the connection between the Hartill family and the Birmingham Syphon Company. Given that Companies House no longer retain any data on companies that have been defunct for 20 years other than the winding up date, this is not going to be easy. That decision, made I think when Companies House moved to Cardiff, was tragic for anyone researching companies. That really only leaves the possibility that a Will may have mentioned something to this effect, i.e. bequeathing Hartill shares in the Birmingham Syphon Co to someone, and that is a slim chance.

Maurice

 

[mikejee]

Here are two additional documents, one showing that a Mr J.H.Hartill worked (and played billiards) for the company in 1905, and that in 1921 Mrs F.A.Hartill was a director of the company

 

[sospiri]

Brilliant, Mike. In a private message, Joe mentions that " There was also a tale that her eldest sister, Dora, sold the remaining family shares to Luke Bradley around the 1930s. There was some controversy over it I think."

So the Hartill family were certainly involved.

Maurice

 

[joe guttridge]

I think I am at the point at which I can demonstrate the ownership of this company by the Hartill family & its early history. I have found that the Kellys directories & censuses point to the formation of the company in or around 1880 in 12 Bishop Street, probably by a John Osman, an established publican in the Smethwick area (Lord Nelson, Moilliett Arms).
Between 1890 & 1895 the proprietor had become (John) Henry Hartill, a former miller & flour agent from Oldbury ( originally from the Victoria Flour Mill, Birmingham St., by Bustle Bridge on the original (now disappeared) canal). In 1895 the Birmingham Syphon Co were at 168 Bishop St.
In the 1901 census, Luke Bradley, who was recalled as the owner much later in the 20th century, was a 'clerk, mineral water company'. He was also originally from Oldbury, but in the 1891 census was listed as still at Oldbury & employed as a 'clerk Chemical Wks' (probably Chance & Hunt).
In 1903, kellys directory has the company at Meriden St & the proprietor is John Harry Hartill (John Henrys son) who was still at the helm at the time of his death in 1916, as reported at the time & recalled in an excellent recent article by the Core Library at Solihull avai;lable at https://solihulllife.org/2016/01/25/25th-jan-1916/ .
I will try & find my way through the later history of the company as Luke Bradley became more & more influential & senior (by 1911 census he was listed as 'secretary of ltd company, mineral water manfr.' Perhaps readers of this forum may have information of later owners, who seem to have been involved in the later history of the company, including after the death of Luke Bradley in 1957. There are 2 people I would be interested to know about, they are Owen Arthur Adams & Lancelot James Cooper who were mentioned as company directors, presumably of the Birmingham Syphon Co ltd., in the probate report associated with the death of Luke Bradley in 1957.
It seems to me at present, that on the death of John Harry Hartill in 1916, his sons Harold Leslie & Harry Clifford did not seem to take a central role in the company, although his widow, Florence, was still a director in 1921. Harold Leslie Hartill was still noted as a 'mineral water manufacturer' living at Gattax Farm, Outill, Studley at the time of his resignation from the (special?) police in 1936. Older brother Harry Clifford seems to have spent a lot of time 'in the colonies' prior to the great war, in which both he & Harold Leslie served. Harry Clifford married, as they say, late in life in 1933. By 1939 he seems to be at the Mitre Inn, Bromsgrove with wife Ellen but after the war seems to have settled at 286 Alcester Rd, Birmingham.
Any light anyone can shine on the later life of these Hartill brothers, why they seem not have been involved in the company, or any information on Owen Adams & Lancelot Cooper would be welcome as an indication of how the company developed & why, after John Harry Hartills death in 1916

 

[sospiri]

Joe,

I think you have extracted just about everything that appears in public records on the two brothers. Harry Clifford died in 1956 and as there is no Probate Registry entry, he doesn't appear to have left much in assets. Harold Leslie died in 1967 in Clevedon Hospital and was residing at the time at Old Rose Cottage, Nortons Wood, Clevedon and left £715, which wasn't a lot even given the year. Beyond that, they seem to have kept a very low profile. There don't appear to have been any children from either marriage, but Elizabeth Wilhelmina Hartill died in 1976 and left a substantial sum according to the Probate entry. It doesn't mention a Will, but you could apply for a copy of the Probate and try to ascertain the benficiary, and if that person is still alive, they might know something. The Probate ref is 762812088C and Probate was granted on 25 November 1976 at Oxford.

A London Gazette entry in 1916 mentions the Florence A. Hartill, who married a distance relation of mine, but I have no further information. When I can find a few minutes I will try and see where Florence A. Hartill fits into the family.

Maurice

 

[joe guttridge]

An interesting (if only to me!) snippet. Birmingham rate books show the Birmingham Syphon Co operating in premises at the junction of Allison St. & Bordesley St in 1906 & 1911. The premises were operated by them, but owned by Showells Brewery. Now it is a fact that Walter Showell, the founder of Crosswells & Showells brewery, married John Henry Hartills Sister, Sarah Cheshire Hartill. And it is also reported ( http://breweryhistory.com/wiki/index.php?title=Showell's_Brewery_Co._Ltd) that Walter Showell may have had financial backing from John Henrys' father, Joseph Hartill, who was a major Oldbury Miller & Maltster. So this is further circumstantial evidence of this probable link between the Hartills family businesses & the extensive (at the turn of the 19th century) brewing businesses of the Showells (including Crosswells Brewery). John Henrys' son John Harry, a later proprietor of the Birmingham Syphon Co, was for years a brewery manager in both the midlands & central London, where his sons were born. Perhaps his brewing background owed much to the Hartill family association with the Showells. Indeed, study of the probate record of 1916 show not only his widow & sons named in the documentation, but also Luke Bradley & Walter Showell (junior, the old man having joined his maker by then)