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Birmingham buses

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The trams were 'cobalt blue' and 'pale cream' according to PW Lawson's 'Birmingham Corporation Tramway Rolling Stock,' 1983 and, Mayou et.al's 'Birmingham Corporation Tramways: trams and trolley buses,' 1982. From the photographs I have seen the two main colours of the bus and tram liveries look the same.

However, I don't know if the shade that was called 'cobalt blue' a century ago is what is called 'cobalt blue' today.
The two colours were cobalt and primrose, John.
 
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The trams were 'cobalt blue' and 'pale cream' (also called 'primrose)' according to PW Lawson's 'Birmingham Corporation Tramway Rolling Stock,' 1983 and, Mayou et.al's 'Birmingham Corporation Tramways: trams and trolley buses,' 1982. From the photographs I have seen the two main colours of the bus and tram liveries look the same.

However, I don't know if the shade that was called 'cobalt blue' a century ago is what is called 'cobalt blue' today.
To answer my own question from a bit of googling it is clear that today the name 'cobalt blue' is is applied to a wide range of shades of blue between being darker than sky blue but lighter than navy blue. Today colour matching is done via Pantone or similar colour matching standards, where each shade is given a number. But Pantone only came into existence in the 1960s.
 
When you say it was too light, are you going only from black and white photos, as the earlier films were not panchromatic, and might not have reproduced lightness/darkness perfectly
No Way certainly not mono photos................I was going on a manufacturers sample swatches of Cobalt Blue......but I think each manufacturer has their own ideas of what they name the colours they are making now in their range
 
What's the place with the fancy stone entrance, and is it still there?

Maurice :cool:
The place with the fancy stone facade is the old County Court and the one with the arched windows is Pitman House. both are still there. Here's a photograph looking in the other direction with the Victoria Law Courts & Central Hall in the distance - both terracotta brick masterpieces!
Corporation Street - looking towards the Law Courts from old Square - 2019.jpg
 
Irrespective of what manufacturers called the colour it would, for the size an undertaking like BCT, be to the Corporations own specification. The bus body builders used the shade specified as did the BCT with their repaints. For a definitive answer Wythall may know which manufacturer(s) supplied the paint.
The original description, I understand for the Corporation trams was blue and white. When this became cobalt and primrose I don't know. The colours were a method of distinguishing their trams from the other trams that also ran in the city until consolidation by the corporation in 1910. There were some painted red and cream?, others green and white.
 
WMPTE changed the shade of blue on the buses becaause it was a 'special' shade, latterly only made for the Corporation - and didn't have a 'BS'(British Standard) number, so different manufacturers came up with shade variations. At repaint times, sometimes buses were just given a "CV" (Clean & Varnish), andthe old oil based varnished always made the paint appear a couple of shades darker. There is a WW1 era bus body at Wythall museum where the original blue paint seemed almost black, a small area was carefully flatted down therough the varnish layers to reveal the original blue, which exactly matched the swatches we have for 'BCT blue' as used post WW2. I was horrified to hear that the only surviving complete tram, no 395 now in "Thinktank" :)mad:) has been partially repainted with blue paint supplied by the WMPTE (or its successors) and is the wrong shade.
 
WMPTE changed the shade of blue on the buses becaause it was a 'special' shade, latterly only made for the Corporation - and didn't have a 'BS'(British Standard) number, so different manufacturers came up with shade variations. At repaint times, sometimes buses were just given a "CV" (Clean & Varnish), andthe old oil based varnished always made the paint appear a couple of shades darker. There is a WW1 era bus body at Wythall museum where the original blue paint seemed almost black, a small area was carefully flatted down therough the varnish layers to reveal the original blue, which exactly matched the swatches we have for 'BCT blue' as used post WW2. I was horrified to hear that the only surviving complete tram, no 395 now in "Thinktank" :)mad:) has been partially repainted with blue paint supplied by the WMPTE (or its successors) and is the wrong shade.
Who authorised that sacrilege on car 395? Whoever it was, in my view, should not be connected with any heritage site! That is a distortion of history, but sadly it seems not uncommon as many who are involved in similar places do not seem to have historical research at their fingertips. A great pity they did not take a look at the collection at Wythall, after all they didn't have far to go.
 
Does anyone have any idea what year this was taken by the Trolley Bus in the background?View attachment 150084
Difficult to say. Trolley buses were taken out of service in 1951, so no later than that. It could be as early as the early 1930s. Also, the more distant bus may have a wartime grey camouflage roof, but the picture is faded so I am not certain of that. If it is in wartime livery, then we are looking at photo taken in the 1940s, but that's a big if.
The boy's coat might be another clue that could help someone identify the age of the photo. But I have no useful knowledge on that.
 
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Difficult to say. Trolley buses were taken out of service in 1951, so no later than that. It could be as early as the early 1930s. Also, the more distant bus may have a wartime grey camouflage roof, but the picture is faded so I am not certain of that. If it is in wartime livery, then we are looking at photo taken in the 1940s, but that's a big if.
The boy's coat might be another clue might help someone identify the age of the photo. But I have no useful knowledge on that.
Do we know where the photograph was taken?
 
That's me and my sister, Joan, I was born In 1933 she in 1936. So the photo may be taken in 1938? taken In Yardley before we moved to Moat Lane
Looks pre war I've brought up the levels in the photo but the buses against the bright sky I think were never very good 80 years ago let alone now.oldbrit- 091120.jpg
 
I think few at the Thinktank have any interest in heritage. They are interested in Lego , or showing how medicines or robots work, or what "educationalists" (most of which know nothing about history or heritage ) think is important
Absolutely Mike and without history there would be know tomorrow!
 
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