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Another corner...Worcester Street

Rupert

master brummie
I don't think Worcester Street exists now...only a stub perhaps if it does. Here is a litho advertised by Sanders Of Oxford that shows the corner of Worcester Street and New Street. I am not sure of the date of the scene but suggest that there are indications that may lead to an approximation and I am sure that the store names and numbers will be meaningfull to some. Along New street King Edwards School can not be seen and when it started it was in a guild building built of wood...I have read. Does this print show the start of the demolition on that site in prep. for building the first dedicated school building. Is that gable; just visible, the oild guild building.
The seeming fish mongers was to become a bank on the 1890 survey and the building on the corner a hotel I think. I dont think that there has been any info about the old Guid building...could this be a sighting if only an outline of the roof. Not a corner of great note but one you would have passed to catch a Midland Red at the terminous in Station Street/Queens Way. Perhaps the picture is 1750 ish.
 

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BernardR

Guest
If I read it right this is all that remains - Back of the Rotunda would that be correct Rupert?
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
William Jones, trunk and Portmanteau maker, was at
74, 75, 76, and 134, New-st in 1830. The picture is obviously no 134.
The building where you can just see written on the wall “Ales & spirits”, would be The Fountain Tavern st at 136 New St.. though, when this drawing was made it would appear The fountain ran through into Worcester st, as it looks like that si what is written on the third building on Worcester st.
There was a George Harper, corn chandler in New St in 1813. , though the picture seems to show a barbers pole. Could find no Harper barber in New St, in fact, no Harper in New St. though the directories around then were very sketchy

mike
 

Aidan

master brummie
A nice find. Thanks

It is an interesting street. Wide leading from the moated Parsonage at Edgbaston St, Smallbrook St & Dudley St North but then narrowed considerably to maybe an alley before entering New Street at Swine Market
 

Rupert

master brummie
Another picture of Worcester St. Further down. From Sanders Of Oxford again. Date of scene is unknown but possibly similar age to previous one. Store names may be helpful. Look at the seeming minarette tower and written on it HIPODROME...any one know about this and what street was it on. Any idea of date of scene and where abouts is it on the street...I think it may be about half way down by where Station Street would be.

Hope including these pictures here does not violate anything...they are advertised on the web for sale and our interest may be helpful in this regard.
 

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mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
John Wormington, hosier, 61 & 63 Worcester st. It was on the corner of Station st. The Vaults on the left would be The Board Vaults Pub at no 56 on the corner of bell St. Wormingtons were there from between 1888 and 1890 and sometime after 1921. However up till 1897 the pub was named “The Board” (without any vaults) ., and the pub disappered sometime 1915 and 1921. Therefore the picture scene is dated between 1898 and 1920
mike
 

terryb18

Gone but not forgotten R.I.P.
I got this drawing of Worcester St, corner of Edgbaston St. Thats all I have.

Terry
 

dek carr

gone but not forgotten
Found this in" Birmingham as it was" by Joseph Mc Kenna, Dudley St looking up Worcester St 1886 can,t say i i remember Dudley St Dek
 

Rupert

master brummie
Smashing photo and etching. I can't remember ever being down as far as Dudley St and Edgebaston St. My visit's there only was as far as Station St. Dudley St was the extension of Pinfold St. and met before the railway ran through it but both streets remained on either side of the station.
 

Aidan

master brummie
Another picture of Worcester St. Further down. From Sanders Of Oxford again. Date of scene is unknown but possibly similar age to previous one. Store names may be helpful. Look at the seeming minarette tower and written on it HIPODROME...any one know about this and what street was it on. ....
Rupert - see picture on https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33029 - the Birmingham hippodrome tower seems to have lasted well into the C20th but I know nothing of it - hope the thread enlightens us...
 
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Rupert

master brummie
Great spotting Aidan. The picture posted #6 was made in the 20th century and the man who made it died 1972s I think...anyway he must have got the scene from an older photo maybe or picture. Hurst Street is in the right direction. Maybe I was there one time but can't remember now.

Edit...the picture is by Joseph Frank Pimm RBSA who died in 1972 at 71 yrs. of age. So it was probably a real life study and the dating by Mike right on. The tower seems a little close in the picture...maybe but hard to tell.
 

Rupert

master brummie
Mike, I believe we have misread this picture on Post #1. The title is misleading and what we have been thinking was Worcester Street is not in fact. If you look at the old black map that you posted, you will see a small circular crescent east of what is shown as Swan Alley not to be confused with Swan Passage; which runs off it.
So that this is a picture of New Street to the east of Swan Alley which entered New Street right where the youth and dog are and that Alley was being widened even then to form the upper part of Worcester Street. (you can see the demolition going on). To the right of the picture you can see the outline of a building and I wondered what that was. Well, it’s the end of the buildings that were then Lloyds Hotel and The Hen And Chickens Inn. These would be on the western side of the eventual Worcester Street.
I wondered why the buildings curved around in what we were taking as Worcester street…it was because of the curved Crescent and the last one is almost facing. This makes sense of the numbering for the Fountain Inn. It is in fact on New Street.
I have always thought that the entrance to the Swan was a bit strange and I wonder if it did not front on that crescent originally and the passage being to the back door. So is that a sighting of The Swan on the crescent I wonder.
Anyway, the building on the corner there seems to be held together with steel tie rods and the whole assemblage is not far away from being changed. After which the entrance to the Swan at the front would be narrowed as per the red map and later even that would be gone leaving the entrance only on High Street and the narrow passage to the then Worcester Street. A bit confined as Dickens was to comment upon.
So as for the picture title…welll…corner of Worcester Street possibly but only in that the corner is that dim Swan Alley next to the derelict building on the right. I think that the business next to it is a fishmongers.
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
I'm not sure that I agree with your conclusions Rupert, though i think my earlier conclusions may not be entirely correct. As i understand it, your proposition would make Jones store not on the corner of Worcester St and New St., though it certainly was there in 1845. In 1823 and earlier Jones was only at the other site (no 76), which was on the opposite side of New St near to Christchurch. Taking the 1839 map and twisting it round to approximately the viewpoint of (how I now see) the picture, Jones store (no 134) is marked on the corner of Worcester and New Streets. the Fountain inn is marked in red. high st is off the picture to the left, Worcester St goes down to the right of Jones. the building to the right of jones, in Worcester St is set at an angle to the street (both in the map and on the picture), and to the right of this I think you can just about see the entrance to the yard off Worcester st, which i shown on the map.
Mike
 

Rupert

master brummie
Mike, does it actually say somewhere that 134 is on the west corner of Worcester Street because I think that post#1 picture is the corner of the New Street crescent and your blue dot is the Jones building. I believe that the red dot is the building on the right of the picture being demolished. So with your siteline vertical; rotate the map another 90 degrees anti-clockwise and look up the siteline from across New Street. The maps with the exception of 1890 are not very good but there appears to be a semi-circular crescent, where the funnel is to the Swan shown in black, whch seems to have been filled in with other buildings after post #1 picture. If the red dot is the building being demolished then it seems that Swan Alley ran between it and the fish mongers and would become the extension of Worcester Street. This would give the Fountain Inn a New Street address number it being around the New Street crescent. The trouble is that the maps are not great in scale or feature and interpreting accurately is a problem but the 1890 survey does show a curved line of what probably was the crescent before it was built on. The red map is intermediary perhaps.
Is there any ref. that gives The Swan a New Street address.
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Rupert
The 1845 Post Office directory lists the following, coming down New St from the west on the south side of the street:
132 Burkc &Son, woollendrapers
I33 Turner Gcorge, linendraper
,..,here Worcester street intersects...

134 Jones Wm. trunk maker ,

135 Pritchard Wm. gun & watch maker
I36 Fountain tavern, Wm, W r i g h t o n

This seems to support my point of view, but does depend on the date of the picture, and the assumption that the numbering was the same in 1845 as when the picture was drawn.
mike
 

Aidan

master brummie
I also assumed that the artist of the picture in post 1 was standing in the middle of the area marked on Hanson's 1778 map as "Swine Market", hence one can see an uninterrupted view of Jones' Shop, the "Kink" in New Street to the left and the entrance to the L-shaped yard on the right.
 

cookie273uk

master brummie
I could be wrong but I think I can remember seeing the Bham Hippodrome with that tower on when I was young (I am now 80) pre war and even post war, interesting to know when tower was removed and why ??? Eric
 
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