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ALCESTER UNION WORKHOUSE

Welshnwobbly

proper brummie kid
Maria Gibbs, nee Freeth, died at this workhouse aged 47 in 1864 yet she was living with her husband "labourer in general" Joseph Gibbs at 6 Victoria Grove, between Villa Street and Wellesley Street, Aston, in 1861 with sons, William, 17, labourer; John, 13, labourer; and Joseph, 10, scholar.
Something must have happened between 1861 and 1864 which took her to a pauper's grave at Alcester.
A previous thread on here helped me to locate Victoria Grove but I would like to know if anyone has any information about both Victoria Grove and the Alcester Union workhouse?
 
hi welshnwobbly...i take it you have obtained marias death cert confirming she died at the alcester workhouse? i find that odd as there were quite a few workhouses in birmingham..also was joseph and children still living at victoria grove on the 1871 census...? just trying to build up a picture

lyn
 
Joseph Gibbs seems to be on the 1871 census with wife, son, grand daughter and a boarder before dying in 1877.

His wife is listed as Mary but slight mistakes were easily made and there doesn't seem to be a marriage between Joseph and a Mary between 1864 and 1871 (not that that proves anything).

There is a Maria Gibbs on the 1881 census, a 64 year old widow, listed as a nurse living in Charles Henry St, Bham.

There is then a marriage registered for a Maria Gibbs Jun qtr 1881, Aston. One of the possible husbands is a James Greaves and there are then a couple of possible deaths for a Maria Greaves of the right age listed in Aston, Sep qtr 1882 and Sep qtr 1887. One of these is probably the Maria Greaves listed on the 1881 census which leaves the other.

If you're certain that your Maria Gibbs died in 1864 then ignore the above.
 
you may already have it but if not i have posted a photo of victoria grove on the below thread

lyn

 
hi MWS what address do you have for joseph gibbs on the 71 as i cant seem to locate him

lyn
 
its ok think ive found joseph on the 71 with what looks like wife maria both same age 54 son william ...grandaugter and a lodger living in charles henry st which is where MWS found a maria gibbs aged 64 widow on the 81 census...
 
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1871 census is badly written but agree with Lyn it is more like Maria than Mary (no "tail" for a y at the end).
 

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MY ANCESTOR Maria Gibbs, born Freeth in 1817, died in 1864 at Alcester Union workhouse.
She was married to Joseph Gibbs, born in 1817 died in 1877, and they lived in Lawley Street, Birmingham, among other addresses in the Aston area. A plater, a skilled worker who coats articles with a film of metal (usually silver or gold), of Lawley Street, Aston, Birmingham, born in 1817, Joseph was jailed for six months in 1847 aged 30, for "larceny by servant", which meant that he stole from his employer, treated more seriously than ordinary stealing because he would have been in a position of trust. He died aged 60 in 1877.
He was then in the county court on Mon 8 Nov 1852 for insolvency when he was a brass founder, grocer and provision dealer.
I am assuming that Maria went to the workhouse partly as a result of all this dreadful distress.
Does anyone know anything about the Alcester Union or, indeed, about anything or anyone in this post?
 
Have you seen the replies to your earlier post?

I have moved the mentioned post to the earlier thread. Would members please try and find if there is an appropriate thread already existing befroe starting a new one, and also please only use general discussion section for matters not pertaining to Birmingham or the surrounding area.
 
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hi welshnwobbly...i take it you have obtained marias death cert confirming she died at the alcester workhouse? i find that odd as there were quite a few workhouses in birmingham..also was joseph and children still living at victoria grove on the 1871 census...? just trying to build up a picture

lyn
Hi,
Thanks for your interest.
No, I have not obtained her death cert.
I found on FindmyPast that a Maria Gibbs died in that year and the typed transcription for place of death was wrong. Careful inspection of the actual document revealed it to be Alcester Union and not the street address they had typed so a mistake in transcribing official documents. I have just gone on that evidence, really.
 
Joseph Gibbs seems to be on the 1871 census with wife, son, grand daughter and a boarder before dying in 1877.

His wife is listed as Mary but slight mistakes were easily made and there doesn't seem to be a marriage between Joseph and a Mary between 1864 and 1871 (not that that proves anything).

There is a Maria Gibbs on the 1881 census, a 64 year old widow, listed as a nurse living in Charles Henry St, Bham.

There is then a marriage registered for a Maria Gibbs Jun qtr 1881, Aston. One of the possible husbands is a James Greaves and there are then a couple of possible deaths for a Maria Greaves of the right age listed in Aston, Sep qtr 1882 and Sep qtr 1887. One of these is probably the Maria Greaves listed on the 1881 census which leaves the other.

If you're certain that your Maria Gibbs died in 1864 then ignore the above.
Hi
Thanks for your interest.
Maria and Mary are frequently miss-transcribed from Census documents. My understanding of Census information is that it is based on a reasonably well educated person chosen and paid by the state as their official to go house to house with pen and form to ask who is present at that time. Many of the occupants may not have been able to write themselves so they gave information to the official and the information may not have been true (people may have lied wilfully, they may have given inaccurate information due to not understanding the question etc.) There is then the hugely problematic issue of being able to read what the official wrote. I frequently cannot read what is written as the handwriting can be spidery and I have noticed that transcriptions into digital format are often inaccurate.
 
Hi,
Thanks for your interest.
I am dismally uncertain about almost everything.

Sometimes certificates are the only way to clear up uncertainties. I wouldn't usually recommend spending money but it might be the only way.

If it was me I would buy the marriage certificate between Maria Gibbs and James Greaves. On it will be listed Maria's father's name and if it is Freeth then you know it's her. And if not it will rule her out.

You could buy the death certificate of the Maria Gibbs but if the respondent is someone from the workhouse then it won't tell you anything.
 
Hi
Thanks for your interest.
Maria and Mary are frequently miss-transcribed from Census documents. My understanding of Census information is that it is based on a reasonably well educated person chosen and paid by the state as their official to go house to house with pen and form to ask who is present at that time. Many of the occupants may not have been able to write themselves so they gave information to the official and the information may not have been true (people may have lied wilfully, they may have given inaccurate information due to not understanding the question etc.) There is then the hugely problematic issue of being able to read what the official wrote. I frequently cannot read what is written as the handwriting can be spidery and I have noticed that transcriptions into digital format are often inaccurate.

yes a common problem for all of us researching our family history...my own gt grandparents had me running around in circles....for years i could not find them either living together or seperately on the 1901 census and i still cant so they avoided the census...then i decided to try and find any children that was baptised...i found at least 4 from 1901 to 1909...on the 1911 census they had put married for 10 years but when i found their marriage cert they had only got married the year before in 1910 :rolleyes: ...it was all about saving face in those days...also people lied about their ages usually making themselves older than they really were so i always take the info with a pinch of salt...great fun though

lyn
 
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