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Accumalator Car

R

Rod

Guest
I presume? maybe wrongly that accumalator refers to a set of those early acid type batteries. If this is so, how long would the tram have working before it was taken out of service for a recharge. Maybe this is one for Peter, but you never know one of you other folk might be able to tell me.

The Tram is traveling along Suffolk Street on its way to Bournville
 
Rod I think the date is wrong, I have that photograph dated 1900. The building in the background is the Municipal Technical School ( Matthew Boulton College. ) The foundation stone of which was laid 18th Nov 1893 and opened 16th Sept 1895
 
It says c1890 so around the early 90's which is as far as I can find out when these were introduced, but I an in no way an expert or even knowledgeable in these matters. The photograph was taken in 1900 you are correct, I didnt put that at all being as my interest lies with its power source, but on reflection perhaps I should have to avoid confusion and to keep things in context. O0 Cheers Mike
 
ROD. What a lovely old Photo and whenever there is a date l always try to associate to my Grandmother's Life.
Its a real Gem from the past. Thanks again ROD.
 
Found this in " A walk around the Jewellery Quarter"

At one time in the late nineteenth century there was a very wide variety of public transport in Birmingham, including horse trams to Nechells, horse buses to Harborne, steam trams on the Moseley, Stratford, Coventry and Dudley Roads - and probably others - and battery cars on the Bristol Road, as well as the Handsworth cable cars. The steam trams consisted of a big double-deck trailer (with a roof but no glass in the windows upstairs) in which the passengers rode, and which was pulled by a dinky little steam engine. In their day, they were probably the best form of public transport. Certainly they weren't smoky, running as they did on coke, and they were extremely quiet, as they were designed not to puff. Judging by contemporary reports they just hissed along the road and were quieter and smoother-running than the electric trams that replaced them, and almost certainly quieter, quite possibly cleaner, and undoubtedly smoother, than a modern bus.

But all the other types of transport suffered rather serious defects. The battery cars had the batteries under the seats and they used to leak, so even if you weren't overcome by toxic fumes you might well find that your shoes had dissolved in acid. They were also painfully slow and unreliable. The horse trams were slow, to the extent that many people didn't bother with tram stops, hopping on or off as the trams crawled along. As to the cable cars, whenever the cable got worn they were liable to suddenly set off without warning, perhaps when passengers were attempting to board or alight, and subsequently prove unstoppable. By 1911 Birmingham Corporation had taken over the operation of all the tramways and had replaced all these more or less wacky means of travel with plain vanilla electric trams
 
GER22VAN it is a lovey photo isnt it thank you. I found it in a book.

Mike it seems some the trams did indeed run off acid batteries underneath the seating, Ive found a couple of refrences to them causing damage to peoples clothes and whatnot. I do wish though that I could find a bit more out about how far they could travel and how they charged them up, was it done perhaps at the terminus each end of their routes? Would that be possible in fact, it may be a much longer process I suspect. Why is it important? I haven't got the foggiest.......... It's just something that crossed my mind. Thanks for the refrence youve posted.
 
Taken from "THOMAS PARKER, A BRILIENET ENGINEER "


The Julien Car
That was tried in Ballarat and was made by Mr. Parker to the order of Mr. Pritchard, of Sydney, who merely said he wanted the car, without giving any plans or specifications; the application of the system was Mr. Parker’s. I saw the car tried in Wolverhampton in January, 1888, when it went off without any hitch, and ran for four hours afterwards. There were a number of electrical experts to witness the experiment, and all were thoroughly satisfied. Seven days afterwards it was shipped to Sydney.

Note: This was presumably a tram car, based on Edmond Julien's patents for storage battery-powered electric traction.


Electric Locomotives

Ten months ago I went to a trial of an electric locomotive, made to the order of the Birmingham Tramway Company (also without plans or specifications), who were then running steam traction engines, each weighing 14 tons. Mr. Parker was asked if he could make an electric locomotive to do the work of the steam engines, and for how much. His answer was - "yes, for £700 each."

The loco he turned out only weighed 8 tons, and one third the size of the others. I was the first to get on it and rode into the centre of Birmingham, where we picked up the members of the corporation and the chairman and directors of the Tramway Company, and representatives of the London and provincial press, about 66 in all. We took the stiffest hill along the route, a grade of 1 in 17 and surmounted it without the slightest difficulty.

At a dinner held at a sub-station four miles out, the chairman of the company delivered a grand oration, in which he pronounced the thing a great success. He introduced the company to Mr. Parker, at whom a perfect volley of questions were hurled, and all were answered as promptly. That locomotive has been running on the streets ever since, alongside one of the steam engines, for purpose of observation. The company have decided on a car after the Julien system (as they prefer the storage under the seats to the locomotive and car), combined with the other two patents. The motor is fixed on a bogey in front of the carriage. Of these they have ordered 12. No difficulty is experienced in turning corners, the bogey principle obviating that.


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Just guessin' here, cos I can't see it being very efficient: I wonder if the accumulator description refers to some mechanism that reversed the motor into a generator/dynamo when the pulling load was eased i.e. going downhill and the batteries got a bit of a charge from there? Of course, this could only act as a top up and the main charge would have to be overnight or at other times when the tram wasn't in service.

Then again, I could be talkin' out the top of me 'ead. Let's leave it to Peter.
 
When l think of Accumalator l  think of the wet battery as used in wirelesses of years ago which were rechargable ( the other was the dry battery that was not rechargable.)  I can only think that they worked years ago on much the same principle as my wife's Disability Scooter today.  What is so nice about the photo is to see the styling of the Tramcar and life around it all those years ago.  As l say a " GEM " from the past.
Did the Met at Saltley make Trams as well as trains ?
 
Well as I understand things so far............... The Batteries, Accumulators were made up of metal anode and cathode and acid. From a lot of information Ive so far sifted through the power they supplied would need to be distributed to the motor in such a way as to give lots of Umph!! to enable the motor to work efficiently. So if you design the battery so it can deliver power quickly, the same is true in reverse, and can be charged quickly. I CANT say that this means the tram may have been charged while in service, for example at either terminus, or if it was charged overnight, but it still helps me to understand how it worked I THINK :uglystupid2: It cant have been the best of systems as the operators understood things, because it was I think replaced quickly with the overhead lines to take power for the motors. I think at the time several methods were being used to power trams, the most obvious is steam. I'm hopefull that Peter can solve this mystery that has blighted my weekend :D

Paul STOP IT!! dont set me off on another one, don't introduce Dynamos and other complicated fingies into this perplexing riddle from the past. lololol

GER22VAN It is a GEM but a lot of these old pictures are, it's not just the foreground, the background tells a thousand stories...........
 
ROD. l have looked in the foreground mostly, l will now follow your advice and study the background more.
To contradict myself a little, a short while back l was looking at an old photo of Victoria Square ( when it had the old church ) and as l looked l spotted the Angel Drinking Fountain in the photo, Oh great l now know where it originally
came from, but some time later l read a piece about it and it told me what l had already found for myself. l cannot discribe how deflated l felt.
l do hope they restore it as it looked a little worse for wear as it stood in Temple Row.
 
I gotta feeling that them old cars would not go up a few hills and I have a photo somewhere of the ones in Hockley Brook that were they are pulled along by a cable in the middle of the road at ground level
Horses pulled the first trams to operate in Birmingham at Hockley Brook up Soho Hill in 1872 then came the Steam Tram in 1882, in 1888 they tried underground cables .1890 electric batteries were introduced but were not a success as the fumes from the acid in the batteries made ladies faint, they lasted 11 years and then were replaced by overhad cables trolley cars
 
The reason why we lost a lot of our old trams was Miller Street tram depot got a direct hit in 1941 WW2 and all the trams were destroyed
 
The accumulator (battery) trams ran on Bristol Road from a depot in Dawlish Road, Selly Oak. The batteries fitted along the side, under the seats (which faced the centre gangway) and could be changed by a hoist device in the depot, where there was a steam-driven charging plant. I have seen a book in Wolverhampton Archives from the company that made the electrical gear for them (and the 'Julien' electric locomotive, which pulled steam tram trailers) with photographs of the cars (two types) outside the depot and the battery hoist and generating plant inside.
As has been stated, as the system aged the accumulators leaked fumes and acid, and the passengers must have been delighted when they were replaced by the overhead wire system and new cars in, I think, 1901.
 
I'm sure this subject has been covered before, starting with the same picture. It must have been taken on the last day/s of the accumulator cars because you can see the overhead pole and wires ready for the new system, fed by current from the old Corporation generating station (before the Summer Lane power station opened), which started operation on 14 May 1901.
Peter
 
Slight change of direction:

Birmingham Central Tramways ran 12 large bogie accumulator cars numbered 101 to 112, (these lasted from 1890 to 1901).

In 1894 they purchased 2 smaller 4 wheel cars, built by Brown-Marshal and Co which they numbered 113 and 114. Now for the mystery, the two new 4 wheel cars were withdrawn the following year; does anyone know why? Also what actually happened to them?

I know its unlikely that anyone knows but...

These cars interest me as I'm building a 1/16th scale model of No 113.
All the best
Ken Attwood.
 
Re: Accumulator Car

The Bristol Road double 4 wheel bogie accumulator trams ran from 1890-1901, as has been said (with earlier trials of a battery locomotive 'The Julien', and then of the prototype for the service model decided on - the 52 passenger, nos 101-112.

No.113, was electrically equipped by the Electric Construction Corporation Ltd and was shorter and heavier than 114 - equipped to the designs of the General Electric Power and Traction Co Ltd. They were really trying to get them into service in late Summer 1892, but the permission from the Board of Trade was somewhat drawn-out, cpmplicated by the smaller size requiring the tramway company to check with the council whether they would allow them to carry outside passengers on cars without bogies. By December 1892, permission seems to have been granted (see Public Works Committee Minutes, Birmingham Archives). The National Archives has the BoT papers on the inspection (MT6/597/11) and approval of 113 and 114 - but see also the excellent and comprehensive paper of the late Mr John Stanley Webb on the life of the Bristol Road System https://www.rhs.ac.uk/bibl/xSearch.asp?DATABASE=dcatalo&rf=900006352

Webb, J. S. 'Accumulator tramcars of the Birmingham Central Tramways'. Papers presented at the ... IEE Weekend Meeting on the History of Electrical Engineering, 11 (1983), 9th paper, pp.1-15. (typescript collection of individually paginated papers). Contacting the I.E.T. directly is perhaps the best way of accessing the paper which has excellent photographs from the extant ECC archives (where are they now!?)and details of 113.

I am more interested in 114 principally because of the G.E.P.&T. Co Ltd's involvement, and because it seems not to appear in any photographs and is hard to track down. Both cars had limited lifetimes on the road, probably because they didn't deliver the desired results - smaller, lighter cars (as compared to the other 12) were supposed to solve the battery traction problem in crowded thoroughfares, with more regular service and not having as many maintenance issues as the others which were over-heavy and designed by speculative constraints (similar to the cable car size specifications) rather than the needs of the storage battery system - not that it could have worked successfully under any system without being replaced after a few years of loss. I will dig out the dimensions and weight info for 113.

No.113
four wheeled car
Weight of car with motor etc - 6 tons and 10 cwt
Weight of batteries - 2 tons
Weight of both - 8 tons 10 cwt
Estimated running load (passengers) - 2 tons 2 cwt 2 grs
Total rolling load -10 tons, 12 cwt, 2 grs
Length of car - 18ft 4in
Length of inside - 11 ft 3 1/2 in
Width of car 6ft
To carry 16 inside passengers and 18 outside

The Managing Director of the Birmingham Central Tramways Co. Ltd, Mr William James Carruthers-Wain, was a proponent of electric traction - or indeed any means of reducing the costs of haulage and thereby increasing the profitability. Overhead lines were not permitted in the centre of town - being seen as unsightly; in 1895 and in 1900 attempts were made to replace the battery system, but they did not succeed because of the trolley wire issue.

The tale of the Bristol Road is not a happy one, the electrical companies made offers to the tramway Co for 'electric haulage', unfortunately the reality of maintaining lead-acid batteries for traction work was quite harsh - a destructive and damaging experience to man and machine alike. The handling of the plates and cleaning of the cells were particularly involved. The EPS, Epstein, and Chloride batteries were all given a go - Messrs Waller and Manville consulting engineers taking over the management on behalf of the tramway company after the ECC/EPS lost their contract. The Epstein company made much of the changeover to their wares, but the success of new cells only lasted for 6 months before renewals and damage to the coachwork told on the running costs. The unhappy mixture of electrical company and tramway staff managing an electrical experiment also worked against the organisation required for the success of the system, although technically the arrangements at the Bournbrook charging station were often celebrated as being very good in the early days.
 
excellent photographs from the extant ECC archives (where are they now!?)
Click to expand...
Wolverhampton archives library (https://www.wolverhampton.gov.uk/leisure_culture/libraries/archives/) I have seen the ECC photo album, including views of the various cars, the accumulator changing equipment at Dawlish Rd depot (batteries were removed to be charged, then charged ones fitted enabling a quick turn-round of cars for service), the steam-driven generator for battery charging and its associated switch gear. Also there are views of the 'Julien' locomotive, a battery-electric alternative to steam tram engines, which was tried on black country and Potteries area lines.

See also post #14 in this board.
 
Hi again,
thanks for the info re: accumulator cars 113/114. Now may I change dirrection again please?

I am trying to find information on the old Birmingham Central Tramways car liveries. I know that the car exteriors were painted in Munich Lake (old name for carmine) and lined out in gold. However I can find no information on the following:

(a) What was the colour of the metal work of the running gear/truck?

(b) What were the colours of the floors, seatsceilings and interiors of the sides?

(c) What was the colour of the upper deck seating?

(d) What was the lettering of the company garter crest on each side and how was it arranged?

(e) (Planning for future models) Am I right in assuming that the accumulator cars, cable cars and steam tram trailer cars were all painted in the same livery?

I know that this is all pretty obscure, but there are some very knowledgeable people out there. . .

All the best,
Ken Attwood.
Blackcountryman exiled to Newquay in Cornwall.
 
As a hardened tram buff I am quite fascinated by some of the recent contributions, especially about those two single-truck cars, which I don't recall reading about before. A number of questions arise, for example, did they have one motor or two? It would be wonderful if someone could unearth from somewhere a picture, or better a drawing of these cars. Thanks to all for making this stuff available.
With regard to livery colours, I am afraid I cannot help, although I have made some models of early vehicles. There has always in my experience been a lot of speculation.
Peter
 
Hi again,
I've attached what is possibly the only known picture of car 113.

Car 113, at least, had a single motor with a wheel actuated controller mounted horizontally under the stairs at each end. The controller could tap the batteries in three series/parallel combinations: 16v for starting, 32 volts for slow running and 64v for "speed": there were further constant low voltage contacts which were believed to have been for car lighting.
The car apears to have been a standard Horse tram design that had the largest electric motor slung under it that would fit. I say horse tram as there was no separate truck, just four axle guards bolted individually to the underside: the only springing being that of the journals which would have resulted in a rough ride.

Ive got drawings for 113 also which I'll post when I dig them out.

All the best,
Ken Attwood
 
Hi, me again,
I tried to attach the picture of 113, but failed, sorry, I keep getting the document upload failed message in the box: I'll try again in a few days.

All the best,
Ken Attwood.
 
Re: Accumulator Car

Thanks for this information - very interesting, will follow it up. I do know a little more about the context of the building of the smaller cars - the tensions in the EPS company about the appearance of battery failure and high costs - which were parallelled in the accumulator trams running along Barking Road on the North Metropolitan tramway lines. The G.E.P. & T Co were running them there and so were asked to try a new car at Birmingham, which was really the most conspicuous trial of the machines.
 
Hi I wondered if you had managed to find the drawings for car 113?
 
Hi,
I'd lost touch with this web site: thanks for reminding me that it exists!
As to car 113, I obtained a drawing from Terry Russellwho is a well known supplier of tramway modelling parts and drawings (his web address being as follows).

https://www.terryrusselltrams.co.uk/

The drawing is adequate for model making , however I would dearly like to get hold of copies of the original engineering drawings.......!

There is also a very detailed artical by Peter Hamond in the Dec 2008 issue of "Tramway Review" , published by the LRTA. In the articla, Mr Hammond, one of the leading authorities on Birmingham tramways, summerizes just about everything that is known about the battery system. Its well worth getting hold of, if you are interested. A web search will turn up the link.

As for my own efforts: I'm stalled! I cannot find any details of the internal livery worn by 113 and am loath to guess as once assembled, internal re-painting will be impossible.

Thanks for your interest,
Ken Attwood.
 
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Hi Ken,
Thanks for your kind reply. I'll look into the Terry Russell drawings, thanks a lot.
I have seen Peter Hammond's article 'Experimental battery traction in Birmingham, 1890-1901 (as you say, in Tramway Review - No.216 Dec 2008, pp.270-277) and it is also preceded by an article the same author wrote when building a model of one of the double bogie cars, see Hammond, P. 'A Birmingham Battery Tram', in Tramfare No.231, May-June 2006, pp.8-10 - see https://www.tramwayinfo.com/

There are some other references around to older articles on these subjects, but some of the source publications are harder to come by - J.S. Webb's piece I mentioned in a previous post to this thread, but also an interesting short piece in Hudson History's journal Industrial Archeology , entitled 'Birmingham's Battery Trams', Vol.15(3), Autumn 1997, pp. 2-5, available from
https://www.hudsonhistory.co.uk/index.html


Regards
Chris
 
That description of a trial run is interesting, as it was the demonstration to the 'City Fathers' of an alternative form of mechanical traction, for use in areas where the smell and noise of steam tram engines or unsightly overhead wires would cause offence to the local populace. Also, it is the only recorded journey of one of the accumulator cars on any other road than Bristol Road, where they were constructed to run (subject to the approval obviously given after this trial).

The electrical contractor involved in the accumulator cars' construction, Elwell Parker's 'Electrical Construction Co.' (ECC) also built a battery locomotive, the 'Julien', which was demonstrated on several tramways hauling trailer cars in place of steam locomotives, but sadly received little interest. [I now note it is mentioned in an earlier post]
It is seen here with the type of steam engine it was intended to replace.

ECCtram.jpg
 
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