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A little help Please

Phil

Retired Layabout
Could I have a little help please from someone who knew the area of Newtown, I have here two photos from different sources that could only have been taken moments apart by the same photographer. The thing is that they are both given different locations.
The first photo is given as an example of how some tunnel back terraces were opened up by demolishing one of the houses on the street so that light and air was let into the terrace. This location is named as Hospital St Newtown.
The second photo which must have been taken just before or just after the first is named as Brighton Place, New Summer St and dated 1905. As I would imagine that this terrace stood until it was finally demolished in the latter part of the last century I would think someone might remember it.
This sort of thing is so annoying, because from previous experience the correct location could be neither of those given. So if you have an inkling, I would be grateful.

Phil

 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Phil
Here is a map showing Brighton place in red, then marked as court 20, in 1889, and another from 1917. Between 1905 (not shown) and 1917 the blocking houses at the front disappeared. It can be seen that the house to the right nearest the street is not quite in line with the houses behind. On the map the house to the left nearest the street is in line with the buildings behind. I'm not quite sure about the photos, but think it is in line. Certainly the photos would fit with it being Brighton Place, but, of course, there are probably other courts which would fit
Mike



 

Phil

Retired Layabout
Mike

So you are saying that it was on New Summer St, which makes sense as the name of the terrace and the street are given on the second photo and only the name of the street on the first. If we can just get confirmation of an ex local, then I will be able to amend the text on one of the photos and file it. Thanks once again for your help Mike.

Phil
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Phil
I wasn't saying it was definitely New summer st, just that that would fit from the map. As the hospital st reference didn't give a terrace or court then we can't look at them. But, notwithstanding my caution, I think it is likely to be New summer St
mike
 

Phil

Retired Layabout
Mike

It's OK I know exactly what you were saying, its not that important, its just that I have the photo under two different names at the moment and I would like to know the correct one, but hey its not the end of the world for me.

Phil
 

Phil

Retired Layabout
Mike the mystery deepens, I just came across the same photo in a book by Alan Mahar called Memories of Balsall Heath. Sparkbrook & Highgate. It is tagged as 20 Court Brighton Blace, Brighton rd. That would have to be The Brighton Rd that ran from Moseley Rd to Ladypool Rd on the edge of Balsall Heath. To be quite honest I can remember no back courts at all down Brighton Rd.

I think this court must be a little like the Tardis moving around in time and space.

Phil
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Phil
I have no reference to a Brighton place in Brighton Road. I think that the author assumed that it was there, because of the name. Often there was a Place or Terrace or the like in the street of the same name, but no evidence here. You might be surprised to see the number of brighton Places i have , just from the electoral rolls (which doesn't necessarilly list them all). They are in: Abbey St, Berners St, Cattell Rd, Coventry Rd, Duudeston mill rd, Friston St, Hick St, Icknield St, Larches St, Monument Rd, New Spring St, Park Rd, Railway terrace, St Vincent St & Winson Green Rd. I knew there were several, not didn't realise how many
Mike
 

Phil

Retired Layabout
Mike

The thing that amuses me is not one of the streets or roads you have named is, that not one of them is a street or road that it has been attributed to, though two have them have named it as Brighton Place.

Phil
 

Vivienne14

Super Moderator
Staff member
I remember discussions about this photo on another thread and some of us thought that it looked very staged (and a bit too clean) and wondered if it might have been a publicity shot. We wondered if it was a photo publicising the opening up of some of the courts for health reasons (i.e the gateway into the court and the 2 walls are a later development. Would previously have been houses continuing across that gap). Could it have been used in connection with a number of such courts which were being opened up? Hence it's duplication of addresses. Just a (slightly off the wall) thought and probably way off the mark on this! I also remember a discussion about the pillars. There's a name on the top of the pillars but, sorry can't remember what conclusions we came to. Viv..
 

Phil

Retired Layabout
Vivienne

At the beginning of this thread I say that the one photo states that it is an opened up court that was completed in the first round of urban improvements to slum properties in the inner city area. The second photo which must have been taken a few moments later is just given as an example of a back court although in the same area "Newtown"

This latest photo taken from a slightly different angle though I have no doubt taken on the same day as the other two states that it was taken in Balsall Heath.

I do not place any blame on the original photographer for this, other than possibly failing to mark a location on the negative or print. The blame most likely lies with photographic book compilers who don't want to forgo the addition of a good photo for lack of a location so they take a good guess.

Phil
 

Vivienne14

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sorry Phil, got too excited about the photo and the previous discussion about this. Should have read your post more carefully! Viv.
 

Stan Thomas

New Member
The photographs are definately of Brighton Place, New Summer Street.

We lived there with our parents until June 1940, when we moved to Hall Green. Our House was Number 14 - and can be seen in the photographs as the third bay window on the left, and the rent was 7/6d a week (37.5p) My brothers were Tom and Edwin (Edwin having passed away in 2000).

There were 17 houses in the courtyard, plus an outside communial toilet block on the left, and a communial wash-house (a brewus) up the far end of the yard.

Although we all close-knit neighbours, I can now only remember the Billiard family who lived in the far right-hand corner, and a woman named May Killum.

Looking back - and despite the poverty, they were happy times with a wonderful community spirit and a way of life now sadly vanished forever - and for which the trappings of modern life have done little to replace.

Tom and Stan Thomas. (aged 84 and 80).
 
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Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hello stan thanks for comfirming the photos are of brighton place..i totally echo your sentiments as well...happy christmas to both yourself and thomas

all the best

lyn
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
jim i think thats another brighton place...the one stan lived at was in new summer st...your pic shows the one over nechells way

lyn
 

Stan Thomas

New Member
Thank you "Master Brummie" from Bewdley - I'll show the electorial roll to Tom as he is coming over to my place for Christmas. After all these years, what your have sent appears to solve a query - that there was not a house number 2 - as that was where the outside toilets were. So there were 16 dwellings in all.

You also correct my error that one of our neighbours was May Kilminster, not Killum - but I was only three when we left!

Tom and I recently meaasured up New Summer Street from the definative maps and determined exactly were the entrance to Brighton Place was. There is a dissused factory there now, and if I can get permission, I'd like to take my brother in to the exact spot where our house once stood.

Many thanks again to you all, and thanks for the memories.

Merry Christmas to everyone.

Stan.
 
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