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39-41 high street, deritend

Sorry Carolina, not sure what has happened. I cannot find them on coppermine now, but have not deleted (well not knowingly anyway). Have asked moderators if someone could see what happened. Am reposting maps below. Am not sure what info for 1946 you are asking for could you elaborate.
Have just realised that the 1903 map shows New England written on , so the other one is a bit superfluous


map_c_1903_high_st_deritend_showing_nos_392C40___41.jpg


map_c_1889_high_st_deritend_showing_nos_39_40_and_New_England.jpg
 
Hi Mike on another thread I was trying to find some info for a friend of mine of their mother. He has found out that on his birth certificate 1946 the address was shown as 41 High Street, Digbeth.
 
No 41 was originally The Green Man pub, and is marked PH on the c 1889 map. The 1946 Kellys lists it as a coffee house run by Abdul Aziz.
The electoral roll for 1945 for no 41 gives: Montaz Ali, Abthul Azez & Alice Hughes.
The electoral roll for 1947 for no 41 gives: Ayaz Ali, Abthul Azez, Foyaz Ahmed, Nosir Uddin. Muriel A.Uddin, Alice M.Hughes, Syed Meah & Violet M.M.Birch
 
I presume your ancestor was John Rhodes. I have the following, which I thought came from the Midland pubs site, but it does not seem to be there now, so either they have deleted it or it was from somewhere else:

Located close to the corner of Cheapside, this beer house can be traced to 1838 when John Rhodes was listed in an Aston ratebook living in a property owned by Elizabeth Penn. In the following year the beer retailer and fire iron maker was listed in Wrightson's trade directory for Birmingham.

The pub was named in honour of Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Goth who became the Duke of Edinburgh after marrying Queen Victoria in 1840.

John Rhodes was succeeded by Samuel Leadbetter, another man that conducted two trades at this address. In the 1845 Post Office Directory he was listed as a manufacturer in Carpenters' Bits and Braces, Iron and Brass Ship Sail, Thimble and Malleable Iron Nail. Sounds like he was a busy bloke.

By 1852 Thomas Clift was selling ales at No.64 Birchall Street. He came from a family of shopkeepers in Deritend. He later moved to the Red Cow in Gooch Street.

In the 1861 census widow Hannah Evans was listed as the licensee of the Duke of Edinburgh. Born in Portsmouth, 49 year-old Hannah Evans was widowed after her husband lost his life serving on a coastguard vessel. Her sons William and Edward, both brassfounders, were born in Bristol. They had previously in lived the St. Paul's district of Bristol where Hannah had run an eating house.

Henry Swinfen arrived as the landlord in 1863. He had previously been the licensee of the Green Man on the Aston Road, where, in the 1860 Post Office Trade Directory, he was recorded as a "manufacturer of English and Foreign Weights of every description, all kinds of weights accurately adjusted [established 1817]." He continued to operate his brass weight-making business in Birchall Street along with operating the Duke of Edinburgh. His wife Elizabeth probably looked after the pub during the day and he would have served ales in the evening. However his listing, along with the record of Samuel Leadbetter, suggests that the beer house adjoined a substantial workshop building. By 1866 Henry Swinfen's Brassweight Manufactory was based in Darwin Street whilst he had moved to a house in Legge Street at Gosta Green.

William Grove was the licensee at the time of the 1871 census in which he was recorded as a 32 year-old Birmingham-born retail brewer, suggesting that homebrewed ales were produced on the premises. The Grove family were all Brummies. His wife Emma was two years younger. The couple had five children - Elizabeth, William, Harry, Florence and Thomas. They employed 44 year-old Emily Turvey as a general servant.

The Grove's soon moved to the Roebuck at Moor Street and were succeeded by former coal dealer William Pickersgill who came from the George and Dragon in Wharf Street. The Victorian age seems to be a period of musical pubs for many of the licensees of the town.

Evidence of home brewing was still in evidence at the Duke of Edinburgh in the 1880's. Charles Teale was the licensee at the time of the 1881 census in which he was listed as a retail brewer. He was born in Pershore in 1844. Two years younger, his wife Ann hailed from the Black Country town of Tipton. Their six children also lived at the pub. Five years later the family moved to the Manor Arms at Cato Street before taking over the Bull's Head in Villa Road where Lozells meets Handsworth.

Charles Teale was succeeded by Mary Ann Phillips who came from the Vine Inn at Blews Street West. Despite holding the licence of the pub, Walter Harley was recorded as "living on his own means" in the 1891 census. It was his wife Emma who was listed as publican and daughter Ann helped her run the place. The ratebook for the same year details the pub as a retail beer house with brewhouse, maltroom, workshop and premises. Still in Birchall Street but on the other side Cheapside was the maltroom, kiln and premises of Walter Thomas Kirkland.

The Holt Brewery Company had acquired the Duke of Edinburgh by the time the ratebook for Bordesley and Deritend was compiled in 1906. The annual rent for the property was £34.0s.0d. As manager John Hodgkins paid the rates of £4.19s.2d. on behalf of the Aston-based brewery.
 
Hi

Interesting about John Hodgkins. Was he by any chance John O Hodgkins. My mother married a John O Hodgkins in about 1931 when she was eighteen. At some stage she seems to have left him and 'taken up' with my father. As far as I can ascertain there were no children of the marriage which is a bit of a shame because as an only child I would have loved to have had a half brother or sister.

Peter Goodman
 
Yes you are absolutely right, my ancestor was John Rhodes, What a fantastic piece of information you have given me about the pub, I would love to have seen it. John had a few trades:- publican, butcher and fire iron maker. He was made insolvent at one point but managed to regain work with his son Abraham. In Later years, Abraham was linked to the famous Jennens inheritance case along with his brother and their wives, (they had a mutual ancestor, Mary Jennens) and although I do believe from some documents I have seen they did have a legitimate claim, sadly there claim came to nothing. Do you think the Brewery might hold some photo's of the Duke of Edinburgh?
Yes you are absolutely right, my ancestor was John Rhodes, What a fantastic piece of information you have given me about the pub, I would love to have seen it. John had a few trades:- publican, butcher and fire iron maker. He was made insolvent at one point but managed to regain work with his son Abraham. In Later years, Abraham was linked to the famous Jennens inheritance case along with his brother and their wives, (they had a mutual ancestor, Mary Jennens) and although I do believe from some documents I have seen they did have a legitimate claim, sadly there claim came to nothing. Do you think the Brewery might hold some photo's of the Duke of Edinburgh?
Hi Debbie, where did you see the documents? I am also related to this fascinating family.
 
I found this John Rhodes Fire Iron Maker on the 1851 census, are they your family.?

Abraham RHODES Head M 33 M Fire Iron Maker Employ 6 Men Birm-War
Mary Ann RHODES Wife M 31 F --- Birm-War
Eliza RHODES Daur - 11 F Scholar Aston-War
William RHODES Son - 8 M Scholar Aston-War
Abraham RHODES Son - 2 M --- Aston-War
George RHODES Son - 11m F --- Aston-War
***John RHODES Fath M 60 M Fire Iron Maker Aston-War****
Elizabeth RHODES Moth M 58 F --- Birm-War
Fanny RHODES Sis U 10 F Dress Maker Birm-War
Mary RHODES Sis U 15 F Works at a Brass Foundry Birm-War
John RHODES Bro - 19 M --- Birm-War
Address: 105 Upper Trinity Street, Bordesley
Census Place: Aston Aston, Warwickshire
PRO Reference: HO/107/2060 Folio: 585 Page: 38 FHL Film: 008731
 
Hi Jackie. I have been researching my family history for years and have quite a bit of information on this branch if you’re interested

Hi. I am new to this site and found this thread by searching for information on the Duke of Edinburgh at 64 Birchall Street. This is because Edward Hill who was running the pub at one point is my great grandfather. I can’t find any records of this pub being still in existence and my theory is that it may have been knocked down maybe after being damaged during WW2 but I can’t find any records of this. I have looked on google earth at the the street and can only find two existing pubs with different names. Any other information you may have would help with the search of my family history.

Paul.
 
Hi Paul my great grandfather x2 ran this pub in the 1850s and ran a fire iron making business from there as well. He was also described in the trades directories as a brewer and beer seller, so this leads me to believe he made his own. I think the pub was long gone before WW2 as I have not been able to find any reference to it in trades directories.
 
PB & Debbie

The first reference I can find is in the 1915 Edition of Kelly's Trade Directory. The then landlord was John Hall Junior, the previous landlord to that was Edward Hall in 1910. I think the pub was demolished around the 1920's and replaced by a brassfounders, well it was somewhere around that time. I don't think the premises were ever a fully licenced and it was just a beer retailers only licenced to sell beers, ales, wines and cider. Have you any idea of the date when your relation was the landlord?
 
The 1912 electoral roll lists Edward Hill at no 64 Birchall St. Obviously a missprint. The building seems to be missing from the 1920 electoral rolls and after. and is not mentioned in the 1921 or after in Kellys. It is included in the 1915 Kellys, but this would refer to the year 1914 as 1915 is the year of publication, not when the details were collected. It can be seen from the cuttings below that the pub was considered "redundant" in 1914, and so it is likely to have ceased trading in that year.

birm gazette.3.4.1914 pub redundancies.jpgbirm gazette.19.6.1914. pub redundancy.jpgEv dispatch.12.2.1914.pub redundancies.jpg
 
The 1912 electoral roll lists Edward Hill at no 64 Birchall St. Obviously a missprint. The building seems to be missing from the 1920 electoral rolls and after. and is not mentioned in the 1921 or after in Kellys. It is included in the 1915 Kellys, but this would refer to the year 1914 as 1915 is the year of publication, not when the details were collected. It can be seen from the cuttings below that the pub was considered "redundant" in 1914, and so it is likely to have ceased trading in that year.

View attachment 128694View attachment 128695View attachment 128696
Once again you have come up trumps with excellent information.
 
The 1912 electoral roll lists Edward Hill at no 64 Birchall St. Obviously a missprint. The building seems to be missing from the 1920 electoral rolls and after. and is not mentioned in the 1921 or after in Kellys. It is included in the 1915 Kellys, but this would refer to the year 1914 as 1915 is the year of publication, not when the details were collected. It can be seen from the cuttings below that the pub was considered "redundant" in 1914, and so it is likely to have ceased trading in that year.

View attachment 128694View attachment 128695View attachment 128696
This is good info - thanks for sharing.
 
Hi. I am new to this site and found this thread by searching for information on the Duke of Edinburgh at 64 Birchall Street. This is because Edward Hill who was running the pub at one point is my great grandfather. I can’t find any records of this pub being still in existence and my theory is that it may have been knocked down maybe after being damaged during WW2 but I can’t find any records of this. I have looked on google earth at the the street and can only find two existing pubs with different names. Any other information you may have would help with the search of my family history.

Paul.
Hello Paul - just saw this after I posted on another comment - Edward & Lizie Hill were my GGF & GGA too!
Chris
 
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