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Ex Pats and Brummies abroad

Alan,

Not long after my well-qualified son & his family moved to Brussels, he was told that he needed to be fluent in French to get a job, so he spent a year immersed in French. The first offer he had was with Belgium's third largest mobile phone company, where he still is many years later, despite many takeovers. He found that all the software people he was being put in charge of were Dutch and all the Company used English as their everyday language!

Maurice :cool:
 
Pedro,

I can only speak for Greek and say that they have a long way to go yet. Yes, they get the basic meaning right most of the time, but you wouldn't use one to do your Greek homework. It reminds me of someihing an ex-pat said to me about 12 years ago when we were discussing learning Greek. "My wife's been going to Greek language lessons for 5 years now and still can't speak it. I don't bother, but I can talk to the taxi drivers". Most taxis drivers just want to know your destination, left, right, straight on, & how long have you neem here? And they can cope with it in English or Greek.

With three genders, the usual array of tenses, the tendency to omit personal pronouns and rely on verb endings most of the time, no question marks, but rely on the inflexion and context, plus the numerous different endings to nouns and adjectives depending upon gender, pronoun or implied pronoun, it's not surprising that computers don't make a very good job of it. According to the British Embassy, it's the fourth most difficult language in the world.

Maurice :cool:
 
Sometimes even the best English speakers from foreign lands get caught out. The company I worked for had an evening conference where a Swiss chap gave a presentation of his recent research. He started by saying "Good night ladies and gentlemen". We would of course might have started with "Good evening" whereas "Good night" is always used when you are saying goodbye to somebody. A German visited us and he said that he had arrived to the UK "with an aeroplane". In German travel is often indicated by the word "mit" e.g. "Ich bin mit dem Auto gefahren", which means "I travelled by car", although the word "mit" can also be translated as "with". Dave.
 
I do not text. However, I wonder how those who frequently - some, it seems perpetually - would get on with a foreign language. I assume you would have to be fluent in the language. It presumably would make any translation almost unworkable.
 
On the same topic with a different angle, I do a lot of work with factory automation using PLC;s (programable logic controllers) HMI's (human machine interface) & facial recognition controls. The later being the newer technology is actually less difficult to deal with. The primary manufactures of equipment for the other two are Siemens (German) and Allen Bradley (US/English). We are in the process of delivering to customer in China using AB controllers programmed in English then they converted to Chinese. Sounds simple but not always. It depends where in China as the language and accent varies greatly. Also the conversion ALWAYS needs an adjustment. Sometimes when you use Siemens in an English speaking country it becomes difficult for some reason. We did a job for a company in Turkey built in the US with Siemens controls, we put a little extra in the budget for that one!
 
Interesting observations in the above posts. I spent 5 years studying Portuguese in England and got an "A" level at the age of around 55. Although I have only had the translator for a few weeks I think it would be useful tool while studying a language. Also, if you don’t live in the country you can get a bit rusty.

Greek must be difficult as you also have a different alphabet. But learning and speaking another language doesn’t have to mean perfection, and it can very rewarding.
 
Bob,

IKEA should be good as some of the Scandinavians speak better English than many English people do. And I presume that as much of their stuff is melemine-faced chipboard, it is made in Sweden. The closest we have to IKEA out here is an ordering shop in Heraklion - they keep very little in stock on the island so I understand, although I have never used them here.

Chinese and its many variants is well out of my league.

Maurice :cool:
 
Well done, Pedro. I speak enough Greek to get by in a really rural location, but all Greeks here want to improve their English, which is a lot better than my Greek, so we always resort to English in conversation mode. Even a lot of the tavernas in tourist places have reverted to either a numbered item system (a la Chinese) or a complete multi-language system. I suppose you do what is necessary to sell your product to a foreign customer. When we started to get a number of Russians over here, waiters started to learn some basic Russian. In the 5 star hotels they tend to employ Ukrainian staff anyway. Not so much of a demand for German these days and not many Germans still have holiday homes here - Merkel is still a bit of a dirty word! :)

Maurice :cool:
 
Well done, Pedro. I speak enough Greek to get by in a really rural location, but all Greeks here want to improve their English, which is a lot better than my Greek, so we always resort to English in conversation mode. Even a lot of the tavernas in tourist places have reverted to either a numbered item system (a la Chinese) or a complete multi-language system. I suppose you do what is necessary to sell your product to a foreign customer. When we started to get a number of Russians over here, waiters started to learn some basic Russian. In the 5 star hotels they tend to employ Ukrainian staff anyway. Not so much of a demand for German these days and not many Germans still have holiday homes here - Merkel is still a bit of a dirty word! :)

Maurice :cool:
:grinning:
 
Can someone please help Ikea and the Chinese both of these have serious problems with instructions after the translation into English the worlds most spoken language
Can someone please help Ikea and the Chinese both of these have serious problems with instructions after the translation into English the worlds most spoken language
Bob, IKEA should care a lot more for some reason they don’t. With the Chinese I think it’s like Japanese instructions from some years back. Not sure they care too much either!
 
That‘s interesting Maurice, I have found that the younger people I have spoken with are keen to learn English, so they speak in English and I speak in Portuguese. We then correct each other, and it can be quite a laugh.

When I started learning I chanced to hear a Professor of languages from, I think, Cambridge. He said the most important things to try when learning a language were, learn lots of vocabulary, learn the pronunciation, and don’t be afraid to make a fool of yourself.
 
That‘s interesting Maurice, I have found that the younger people I have spoken with are keen to learn English, so they speak in English and I speak in Portuguese. We then correct each other, and it can be quite a laugh.

When I started learning I chanced to hear a Professor of languages from, I think, Cambridge. He said the most important things to try when learning a language were, learn lots of vocabulary, learn the pronunciation, and don’t be afraid to make a fool of yourself.
Pedro, I think you raise some excellent points! Although I have been told that I make a fool of myself without too much effort
 
Pedro,

The professor was quite right, but learning / memorising vocabularly when you're older is probably the most difficult part of the process. You can be told a word for a particular item, but unless you use it every day for a couple of weeks, it simply doesn't stick. On one of the courses I went on, one of the lessons comprised the names of 50 different body parts. What a waste of time that was. I haven't met a doctor here that doesn't have at least a passable knowledge of English, simply because a lot of the medical papers they encounter during their training are only available in that language. And in my 15 years here I've been in five different hospitals and the two closest to our home many times.

When it comes to nurses, not so good because they don't have the same intensity and depth of training. But you get to know what they want you to do, more by sign language perhaps than anything, such as "take a deep breath" just as the needle is going to go in! :)

Pete,

I can write it, but if it is a word I don't know, I need to see it written down, because several letters and combinations of letters sound the same. Reading is easier for me because of my deafness and that was one of the reasons I gave up formal language lessons. I have great difficulty with sibilants in any language because of my high frequency loss. It helps that 12 of the Greek letters are identical to English - that's half of the Greek alphabet, so you only have to learn another 12. :) It also helps that all written letters are pronounced - no silent ones - and no double letters. But there are lots of irregular verbs.

Another thing I might mention is that in lower case Greek or its transliteration into English (or Greeklish as we call it) is that the tonos (like an acute accent in French) is used to denote upon which syllable the emphas is to be placed. That considerably helps you to get the pronunciation right, but when a place name, for instance, in written wholly in upper case, the tonos is dispensed with. Then you're on your own. :eek:

Maurice :cool:
 
Pedro,

The professor was quite right, but learning / memorising vocabularly when you're older is probably the most difficult part of the process. You can be told a word for a particular item, but unless you use it every day for a couple of weeks, it simply doesn't stick. On one of the courses I went on, one of the lessons comprised the names of 50 different body parts. What a waste of time that was. I haven't met a doctor here that doesn't have at least a passable knowledge of English, simply because a lot of the medical papers they encounter during their training are only available in that language. And in my 15 years here I've been in five different hospitals and the two closest to our home many times.

When it comes to nurses, not so good because they don't have the same intensity and depth of training. But you get to know what they want you to do, more by sign language perhaps than anything, such as "take a deep breath" just as the needle is going to go in! :)

Pete,

I can write it, but if it is a word I don't know, I need to see it written down, because several letters and combinations of letters sound the same. Reading is easier for me because of my deafness and that was one of the reasons I gave up formal language lessons. I have great difficulty with sibilants in any language because of my high frequency loss. It helps that 12 of the Greek letters are identical to English - that's half of the Greek alphabet, so you only have to learn another 12. :) It also helps that all written letters are pronounced - no silent ones - and no double letters. But there are lots of irregular verbs.

Another thing I might mention is that in lower case Greek or its transliteration into English (or Greeklish as we call it) is that the tonos (like an acute accent in French) is used to denote upon which syllable the emphas is to be placed. That considerably helps you to get the pronunciation right, but when a place name, for instance, in written wholly in upper case, the tonos is dispensed with. Then you're on your own. :eek:

Maurice :cool:
1582304573060.jpeg
 
Can someone please help Ikea and the Chinese both of these have serious problems with instructions after the translation into English the worlds most spoken language
I see the request for help with speaking Ikean and as an expert in the language (it once took me six hours to build an office unit), I thought I could help . Firstly it is easier to look at individual words and once some of those are identified, the language will slowly evolve. Todays word is:
Billy. n. pronounced Billee - A set of bookshelves, it is a word that covers all sizes of bookshelf and very commonly seen in Ikealand.
Tomorrow's word is Hemnes.
Bob
 
I see the request for help with speaking Ikean and as an expert in the language (it once took me six hours to build an office unit), I thought I could help . Firstly it is easier to look at individual words and once some of those are identified, the language will slowly evolve. Todays word is:
Billy. n. pronounced Billee - A set of bookshelves, it is a word that covers all sizes of bookshelf and very commonly seen in Ikealand.
Tomorrow's word is Hemnes.
Bob

I had to read your post a couple of times Bob... it went straight over my head I didnt have a clue what you were talking about ...the penny has dropped now haha :joy::joy::joy:
 
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