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Lichfield Street, Birmingham

In 1861, 123 Lichfield St is occupied by "John Simmons" age 24 and describes himself as "Tea Dealer Emp 4 Men"

125 Lichfield St is occupied by Robert Owen, age 60 - Carriage Builder - which fits with the photo of "The Old Farriers' Arms", which has a Carriage Builder next door.


So seems to me 123 was not turned into a pub until after 1861 - or may be closed as a pub, but then re-opened again as a pub later.

The writing in the wall (saying M.A.STEVENS) seems to have been there some time and is fading - of course, it could just be that the smog ate into the paint much quicker in those days??
 
Numbering seems to vary slightly at this time. Certainly the c1855 White'e directory lists the Farriers Arms as at no 123. the c1849 PO directory lists it was no 100, as does the c 1845 PO directory. Other businesses seem to move numbers at the same time, so either the buildings were slightly renumbered or numbering was a little arbitrary at this time in this street.
Anyway in the 1861 census the Farriers Arms is listed as no 121, with Anne Underhill as victualler. Below it can be seen in the Birmingham Journal of 6.4.1861 that Anne Underhill took over as landlord from Henry Jones

birm_J_6_4_1861.jpg
 
Interesting - thanks - shame there aren't house numbers in that newspaper report

My copy of the 1861 is below ... Giving "Ann Underhill,Head,W,,67,Victualler" at 122 - but with 123 not existing - and the poor "Spencer"s don't seem to get a number, but as they are "Lodgers" I guess they may have been staying at the Farriers ... 122 is a strange number as that would imply the other side of the street?? I've attached the actual extract.

If you look at the photo of The Old Farriers - it looks possible that two buildings had been knocked through to make the pub - the build at on the other side from the carriage builders (with palates leaning against it) looks like the windows are blacked out.


95,120 Lichfield St,1,Robert Lea,Head,M,38,,Hair Dresser,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Elizabeth Lea,Wife,M,,34,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Elizabeth Lea,Dau,U,,18,Warehouse Woman,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Clementina Lea,Dau,,,7,Scholar,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Adaline E. Lea,Dau,,,5,Scholar,Birmingham Warwickshire,,

96,Lichfield St,1,Humphry Spencer,Lodger,U,21,,Musician,Liverpool Lancashire,,
,,,John W . Spencer,Lodger,U,18,,,Liverpool Lancashire,,

,121 Lichfield St,u,,,,,,, ,,

97,122 Lichfield St,1,,Head,W,,67,Victualler,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Caroline Stanley,Dau,M,,37,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Caroline Perks,Grndau,U,,8,,Wolverhampton Staffordshire,,
,,,James Perks,Son,U,34,,Locksmith,Wolverhampton Staffordshire,,
,,,William Prisentall,Visitr,M,42,,Brass Caster,Birmingham Warwickshire,,

98,125 Lichfield St,1,Robert Owen,Head,M,60,,Carriage Builder,Middleton Warwickshire,,
,,,Ann Owen,Wife,M,,60,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Louisa Owen,Dau,U,,24,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,

Screenshot - 100915 - 09:19:12.png
 
The missing photos have all been posted in one form or another by other people, except this map. I have never found other photos of the street. My family lived at 45; their nearest pub was the Green Dragon

lichfieldSt_1.jpg
 
I'm new to this forum and also interested in old Lichfield street. My g-g-g grandfather Charles Pane owned an engraving and letter cutter business on Lichfield from 1840 to at least 1873. This was a family business that went back, near as I can document to 1765 and always on Lichfield although the street number would change:

1770 to 1800. Charles Pane, Engraver/book and paper printer/letter cutter at 81 Lichfield St.

1800 to 1821. Adverts show the business at 97 Lichfield. Also at some point the business was take over by his son, Alfred Pane.

1821 to 184o. Alfred still at 97 Lichfield st. When he died in 1840, his sons Charles and Edwin (some adverts say Edward) have the engraving and letter cutting business at 4 Lichfield St. It stays at 4 Lichfield until 1855 (but Edwin disappears).

1855 to 1866 Charles has the business at 12 Lichfield street.

1866 to 1873. Charles still has the business but the address is now 120 Lichfield St.

1873 to 1876 I haven't found any adverts but in 1876 the adverts reappear and now the business is at 14 Newton street. The business remained at 14 Newton until Charles death in 1887.

Please forgive the long winded post...just trying to get a grasp on the timeline and the changing street numbers. I know from one advert, the business was located on or near "the Old Square". I was very interested in the pictures of the Old Farriers Pub, the address being so close to Charles' business.

I've made note of the books/ references made in this forum regarding maps and pictures of this area. Any other suggestions of books, websites or old map sites, or if anyone has come across mention of the Pane's long standing business would be appreciated.
 
The numbers of some streets do sometimes change, and I did wonder whether the change from 12 to 120 was just a renumbering, but have checked and there was no renumbering of the street in this period. For interest I show on the map below the approximate positions of 12 and 120. Around the end of the 1870s and early 1880s there was a lot od demolition and rebuilding in this area , partly to allow the formation of the new Corporation St. this is probably the reason for his move to Newton St, and disappearing for a while. However, although he is missing from the 1876 Post Office directory, he appears in the 1878 one at 14 Newton st ( note date of directories s publication date, and will likely be referring to the year before, depending on when the area was ssurveyed.) The accompanying map shows where I am fairly sure no 14 was in red. .The King of Prussia was no 16
 

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Lichfield Street (photo from the Shoothill site). Sorry no date. Viv.
 

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mikejee said:
The numbers of some streets do sometimes change, and I did wonder whether the change from 12 to 120 was just a renumbering, but have checked and there was no renumbering of the street in this period. For interest I show on the map below the approximate positions of 12 and 120. Around the end of the 1870s and early 1880s there was a lot od demolition and rebuilding in this area , partly to allow the formation of the new Corporation St. this is probably the reason for his move to Newton St, and disappearing for a while. However, although he is missing from the 1876 Post Office directory, he appears in the 1878 one at 14 Newton st ( note date of directories s publication date, and will likely be referring to the year before, depending on when the area was ssurveyed.) The accompanying map shows where I am fairly sure no 14 was in red. .The King of Prussia was no 16[/QUOTE

Thank you for looking into this for me and for the maps. I now how a much better idea of where on Lichfield Charles and family were located. I'm thinking the changing numbers is a combination of moving and, later, the rebuilding of the area. I didn't have the 1878 Post Office info either, so again, thanks for you help. Cath
Click to expand...
 
Welcome Cath. Hope you enjoy the forum. I was thinking if we could identify the pub in the photo we might be able to work out if any of the buildings in the photo were connected with your ancestors business. Maybe orher members could tell us of any pubs in Lichfield Street please? Thanks. Viv..
 
If you mean the pub in the photo you posted, it is the Rose and crown. On the better copy here you can see that the lamp has a crown surmounting it. The rough map shows the approximate position of the Rose & Crown in blue (& incidentally the Farriers Arms)


approx__position_of_Farriers_Arms__and_Rose___Crown_lichfield_st.jpg
 

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That's a much better copy of the photo Mike, thanks. I think there's a number above the man in the doorway - could be a building number. It's, I think, the number 103. Viv.
 
Thanks again. The Rose and Crown may not be "next door" but it's in the right neighbourhood. The maps and the dots help put the locales in perspective.
 
The Rose & Crown was where my g.g. grandfather lived in 1845 when the number was 16 Court, 79 and a half Lichfiled Street, his name was John Raybould. I believe it was later re-numbered as 101.
 
Sylia
The renumbering that you mention took place soemtime between the issue of the 1849 and 1855 directories. In 1855 it was listed as 101
 
Thanks Mike, do your directories show whether John Raybould was still there during the dates mentioned? i know on the 1851 census the family were at 42 John Street, Dale End, another pub The Wine Vaults.
 
He is listed in the 1849 post office Directory and whites directory at the Rose & Crown. That would probably mean 1848.. In 1855 post office directory he is at the Dog & Duck, 40 sheep St. the 1853 slaters directory shows him at neither the Dog & Duck or the Rose & Crown, and indeed does not list him.
 
Hi mike
Speaking of Lichfield street
The original work house built in 1733 was in Lichfield street,roughly where the Victoria Law courts
Are today.
This was replaced by a new building in dudley road in 1852. In 1874 a building near the work
House was acquired as a new Hospital and in1889 a new building was erected to house
The infirmirmary, till then an integral part of the original construction in1929
The functions of the board of Guardians were transferred to the Local Authority and in 1946
Again transfered this time to the regional Hospital Board.
The External view was taken by Norris's and the interior of the Female merit ward
By Frank Nightingale
That's where the oldest person whom died on march 15. 1909 at the age of 108 Years old
Within that ward and building her name was Mrs Smith,
Best wishes Alan,, Astonian,,,,,
 
sylviasayers said:
I have found my g.g. grandfather and family on the 1841 census living in Lichfield STREET, Borough and Parish of Birmingham, occ. Victualler, could anyone tell me if Lichfield Street was the previous name of Lichfield ROAD, and does anyone know the names of any pubs, my g.g. grandfather's name was John Raybould, I have now found him on the 1841, 1851, 1861 and 1871 census' and have the names of a few of the pubs he kept.
Click to expand...
Sylvia, firstly I do hope you are still there as I have only just found this forum... My g.g.g. Grandfather Raybould lived on Lichfield street and my family Westwood’s ran various public houses mainly The Woodman which was a main coaching Inn for the New street and was demolished for the original Bull Ring building...

My g.Grand uncle William Edward Westwood left a story that Grandfather Raybould had drowned in the canal
I willche k it out and with any luck you might respond

Strange I have a feeling that we are cousins???
Jo Westwood
 
Hi Jo, I have replied to you in "Conversations" but forgot to ask the Christian name of the grandfather Raybould who drowned in the canal. Going back over the years the Rayboulds were a very big family so we might well be connected somewhere along the line.
 
I hope someone might be able to help me - I have a relative as being listed in the trades at no.42 Lichfield Street in 1820/30 as a Victualler- so I'm either looking for a pub or shop selling alcohol. I've got a big list of pubs in this road but I can't narrow it down any further (I have found lots with higher numbers), I wondered if anyone might be able to help? I am also loving all the old photos of the time, so thanks everyone for those.
 
The Green Dragon was renumbered as 52 sometime around 1850 (it was 52 in 1855 directory) and seems to have survived till Lichfield st was demolished with the construction of corporation St
 
That is brilliant, thank you so much. It looks like a couple of generations of my family were in the street through the 1800s so everyone's stories on here are really interesting.
 
That's right. My Great Great Grandparents lived at number 42 (1851 census) My grandfather committed suicide in Dec 1853 and the inquest was held at the Green Dragon. The 1851 census gives number 42 as a name which looks like Eliza Hackney? victulualler. My GGParents were dyers and their place was on the right as you walked away from town and opposite the Work House. I am not clear which side the Green Dragon was on. I don't have photos down that end but there are two photos further up the street near town at post #55
 
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Here is the 1841 census with some Westwoods (a victualler) but no street number given
 

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Michael
The 1845 PO directory lists Thomas Hackney as licensee. Presumably he had died by then and it had been taken over by his wife. I think you have mistyped in your post and put 1953 rather than 1853 for the inquest
 
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