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Vine Inn Lichfield Road Aston

I maybe totally wrong ( nothing new there) but the red spot ( The Vine) should be much further up the road?
 
Looks like the map is wrongly orientated ....needs a 90deg turn to the right?

The fonts used seem to suggest it is a copy?

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Alan
As I said, the mapmaking of the map is not up to OS standards .The map is nmot set Nothe up, south down. But the canal is to the east of the vine, it has BIRMINGHAM written along it, on th eright of the vine. The lichfield road (which isnt named on this aprt of the map) runs down to the left of the vine.
 
Alan
As I said, the mapmaking of the map is not up to OS standards .The map is nmot set Nothe up, south down. But the canal is to the east of the vine, it has BIRMINGHAM written along it, on th eright of the vine. The lichfield road (which isnt named on this aprt of the map) runs down to the left of the vine.

Yes, not SN I had corrected my post.
 
Sorry. Frothy you are correct. Got confused myself with the map, with virtually no roads named. Here is the actual map showing the Vine , with a building where the vine later was marked .
tithe map of lichfield road around Vine inn c1845.jpg
 
When people have read this I will delete the incorrect map, so others are not confused
 
So Mike's 1845 tithe map shows the building as roughly the same shape. It must have been visible/well known for miles around (despite other buildings not necessarily marked on tithe maps). And it has 'Park' labelled alongside it. So presumably that means Park Road (?) but interestingly none of other roads have labels around there. I think we probably have a significant building here. Would it have been near a toll gate ? Viv.
 
viv mikes first snippet on post 29 mentions the turnpike road yes i would think there was a toll gate nearby just trying to find one marked on a map...i think where it says park is park st which is still there and marked on mikes maps post 20

lyn
 
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Bill Dargue states that the turnpike was set up from Birmingham along the Lichfield Road as far as Watford Gap in 1807.

For reference, the OS Map of 1887/8 shows the end of Corporation Street, then Aston Street to Gosta Green, It then becomes Aston Road until Aston Brook Street, where it becomes Aston Road North until Aston Cross. From Aston Cross it becomes Lichfield Road.

In 1834 the Aston Brook Mill comes up to Let. I think it would be at Aston/Hockley Brook near the present Aston Brook Street. It is advertised as on Lichfield Road. So maybe the toll gate would be nearer to Birmingham than the Vine?

It may also be that, in the earlier days, the road from the Toll Gate towards Lichfield would be more well-known as “the Lichfield Road.”

In the book History of Birmingham, by Hutton 1835 he says....“The roads to Lichfield and Coleshill, now Aston and Coleshill Streets, extending to Duke Street, the boundary of the manor.”

So Aston Street is quite old, and as the manor boundary was Gosta Green maybe the toll gate was somewhere around this street?
 
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As far as I can see the tollgate was by Aston Cross, accross the road on the city side of the junction.
tithe map c 1848 around toll gate lichfield road.jpg
 
phillips st still there mike off high st newtown...the park they built there after demo of the st is called phillips st park...also had st phillips church there but that was also demolished

lyn
 
This token for entertainment at the Vine presumably shows the building, although it's difficult to say if it's accurate. The token is in the British Museum. Interestingly J Bandano - keeper of the Vine - also ran the Grand Sultan Divan in Birmingham.

There was a case which went to court where an 'acquaintance' of Mrs Bandano was accused of stealing jewellery from Mr Bandano. They both seem to have led a very colourful life judging by newspaper reports of the time. Viv.

image.jpeg image.jpeg
 
A report showing Mr Bandano's relationship with the Vine and the Divan is given in the cutting below, the initial report of a robbery, which, as can be seen, caused some amusement in court. the man was found guilty. In august Mr Bandano had been warned by the licensing magistrates about having immoral characters at the Vine at a late hour !
Birm D.Gaz.29.8.1866.jpg birm D.Gazette 10.10.1866.jpg
 
The place did have a 'reputation' it seems, so I guess that was the reason for laughter. :D Many of those old court reports show the hilarity and entertainment that was to be had in older days. But that was before movies and tv.
 
On the subject of pleasure gardens....In Whites Directory of 1849 there is a R Ashford, pleasure gardens, the Boat Tavern, Witton.
 
A comparison of the token depiction of the Vine and present day view. The frontage hasn't changed dramatically, mostly at ground level with changes to the entrance.

I wondered if there was ever some sort of brewery on the premises at one time. Hence the odd shape of the building. And most probably any stabling would have been to the rear of the pub, especially on what was (and still is) a busy road. Viv.

image.jpeg
 
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