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Joseph Allday, Warstone Lane Cemetery

E

ed.s

master brummie
Hi folks. I'm looking for the grave of Birmingham politician and journalist of sorts, Joseph Allday, 1798(?)-1861, which is, or was, at Warstone Lane cemetery.
From what I've read of him so far, Joseph seems a colourful character of decidedly mixed repute. You can read something of his exploits in Showell's Dictionary here:
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/14472/14472-h/14472-h.htm#Birm62
He is also, I believe, my 5 x great uncle.

Having achieved sufficient notoriety to make the Wikipedia article on Warstone Lane, I thought his grave might be one of the better known ones, but so far that doesn't seem borne out by the info boards at the cemetery itself and I've been unable to locate the grave, or confirm whether it is still present there.
I've been in touch with the Friends of Warstone Lane and Key Hill, who have provided me with some useful information on another elusive relative, but thought I'd see what knowledge or interest folk here might have before I trouble them further.

What I have so far:
Joseph's entry in the burial register, unlike those above and below it, gives no grave number, and under "Place of Interment" just says "1". The burial charges were £3 10s.
Joseph's wife Ann (of "Mrs Allday's Celebrated Tripe Establishment") was buried at Warstone Lane in 1878, with burial register listing plot C-233 and "ReOp qf(?) Grave Stone", which I'm reading as indicating a re-opened existing grave which may well be Joseph's.
Prior to finding that plot listing I had given section C a cursory scan on a recent visit to the cemetery. I didn't spot a grave mentioning Joseph or Ann, but did find a monument to Joseph's namesake and nephew (1838-1920), and the younger Joseph's wife Caroline in adjoining section A.

Joseph was apparently a dominant figure on Birmingham council for many years, and was still being written about written about by Showell and others some decades after his death, but his influence on the town appears not to have been a lasting one, and inspires only the occasional footnote in more recent histories, to my knowledge.

So I'd be interested to know if Joseph or his grave is still known of by locals or those with interest in Birmingham history. And does anyone know where plot C-233 might be, or have been?

Any thoughts, tips or general musings much appreciated!
Ed
 
Have a look at JQRT.ORG who are The Jewellery Quarter Research Trust. Attached ALLDAYS are on their interesting people list and they have burial records and grave plans to view.
 

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A description of a publication that was on sale at some point. Also cover of another published in paperback.
 

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Excellent, thanks all! I hadn't found the JQRT database or plot map before - that's most helpful.

Having perused the records for a while, I'm guessing that the other names listed at the bottom of each entry are those with identical grave location references in the database, so in Ann's case, everyone buried in plot C-233, but in Joseph's case just everyone with a similarly non-specific entry in the burial register. For example, Sarah Allday (d. 1858) has no burial location given in her burial register entry. She is listed in the database with a grave type of 'Public' and 2000+ other names below, but her name appears on a memorial stone at plot H-1270, along with her husband John Allday (d. 1870) and son Richard William Allday and others.

The memorial text search is a really useful feature - it immediately brought up all the Allday graves that I spotted on my own recent visit. If I assume that the compilers of the JQRT records have access to a comprehensive set of transcriptions, then I think that's a good indication that any memorial to Joseph or Ann either no longer exists or is no longer legible. I shall nonetheless take a look at plot C-233 when I'm next over that way.
 
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My 4 x great grandparents John and Jane Allday are in there somewhere, too, but like Joseph, the JQRT site suggests they have no extant memorial either. John (d. 1871) was Joseph's brother and, I think, a founding member of the Birmingham Political Union with Thomas Attwood and others. His burial register entry gives no location info at all. Jane (d. 1884) was from a family of builders from Aberdeenshire. Her great uncle, Samuel Copland, built the 1795 incarnation of the Old Meeting House in Birmingham, and her cousin Alexander Copland built the house at Gunnersbury Park in London. She was also aunt to the notorious John Grayson Farquhar, whose trial for murder made lurid headlines in the 1860s.

Jane Allday's grave location just says "Circle". Does anyone know if that means the circle surrounded by the catacombs? Or somewhere else?
 
If a headstone was not provided within a certain time the graves were forfeited and re-used. This happened with several of our ancestors.
I believe the Circle is the grassy area surrounded by the catacombs.
rosie.
 
Many thanks for all the further updates and pictures folks - I'm most impressed and appreciative of the trouble you're all prepared to go to (especially if you've taken those pictures yourself, Richard).
I see the graves at plot C 233 were removed, but the memorial stone left in place. The same happened with the graves of Caroline and Joseph Allday-the-younger. That Joseph's father, Thomas Allday was buried with his wife Sarah at C-93, and their grave was removed, monument and all.

Curious as to how Ann Allday ended up in C-233. I looked up the Walkers and Moores on Ancestry earlier, and can't see any relation between them and my Allday family. The other name mentioned in the JQRT entry was James Whitehouse in the listed monument inscription, but that looks like a mix up with a different plot 233 to me.
 
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ed.s said:
Many thanks for all the further updates and pictures folks.
I see the graves at plot C 233 were removed, but the memorial stone left in place. The same happened with the graves of Caroline and Joseph Allday-the-younger. That Joseph's father, Thomas Allday was buried with his wife Sarah at C-93, and their grave was removed, monument and all.

Curious as to how Ann Allday ended up in C-233. I looked up the Walkers and Moores on Ancestry earlier, and can't see any relation between them and my Allday family. The other name mentioned in the JQRT entry was James Whitehouse in the listed monument inscription, but that looks like a mix up with a different plot 233 to me.
Click to expand...
No the bodies were not removed, in the case for C233, it was just the kerb to the grave that was removed. No bodies were removed in the 1950s.
 
Tinpot said:
A description of a publication that was on sale at some point. Also cover of another published in paperback.
Click to expand...
Thanks for those Tinpot.

I think the first is new to me - I imagine that will be Joseph's version of events of the Argus libel precedings that led to his 10 month stay at Warwick Gaol in 1831. My ancestor John Allday was also accused of involvement in his brother's libel scandal and the propriety of his place on the council of the Birmingham Political Union challenged by the mentioned William Weston (also a council member) and others. John was cleared of wrongdoing by the council itself, but subsequently became the sole member not re-elected to the council in 1832, so was not on the board during the "Days of May" - the most pivotal moments of the BPU's campaign to secure the Voting Reform Act 1832. John was however re-elected to the BPU council the following year, apparently at Weston's expense.

I knew of Joseph's write up of the Winson Green Gaol exposé, but hadn't spotted before today that it is available on Google books:
books.google.co.uk

True Account of the Proceedings Leading To, and a Full & Authentic Report Of, the Searching Inquiry by Her Majesty's Commissioners, Into the Horrible System of Discipline Practised at the Borough Gaol of Birmingham

books.google.co.uk
It looks at first glance like 150+ pages of court transcriptions carefully edited with Joseph's politician's eye for self-promotion, and may require a particularly rainy day to peruse in any depth, but I shall certainly take a closer look!
 
ed.s said:
Thanks for those Tinpot.

I think the first is new to me - I imagine that will be Joseph's version of events of the Argus libel precedings that led to his 10 month stay at Warwick Gaol in 1831. My ancestor John Allday was also accused of involvement in his brother's libel scandal and the propriety of his place on the council of the Birmingham Political Union challenged by the mentioned William Weston (also a council member) and others. John was cleared of wrongdoing by the council itself, but subsequently became the sole member not re-elected to the council in 1832, so was not on the board during the "Days of May" - the most pivotal moments of the BPU's campaign to secure the Voting Reform Act 1832. John was however re-elected to the BPU council the following year, apparently at Weston's expense.

I knew of Joseph's write up of the Winson Green Gaol exposé, but hadn't spotted before today that it is available on Google books:
books.google.co.uk

True Account of the Proceedings Leading To, and a Full & Authentic Report Of, the Searching Inquiry by Her Majesty's Commissioners, Into the Horrible System of Discipline Practised at the Borough Gaol of Birmingham

books.google.co.uk
It looks at first glance like 150+ pages of court transcriptions carefully edited with Joseph's politician's eye for self-promotion, and may require a particularly rainy day to peruse in any depth, but I shall certainly take a closer look!
Click to expand...
I noticed the front page of the report says Joseph was a churchwarden. Came across this illustration of a stone monument in St Martins with his name inscribed. The illustration is in a Peal Book of St Martins Guild.
 

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Tinpot said:
I noticed the front page of the report says Joseph was a churchwarden. Came across this illustration of a stone monument in St Martins with his name inscribed. The illustration is in a Peal Book of St Martins Guild.
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Thanks - interesting to see Joseph's name in stone somewhere. Most of my Allday family were baptised at St Martin's (in some cases after an earlier baptism at the Old Meeting House). I understand Joseph was warden there for some thirteen years.

Knowing nothing of bell-ringing I've just been reading up on what it is about a particular twelve bell peal that would merit such a monument. Those recorded sound quite the feats of complexity and labour.
 
ed.s said:
Thanks - interesting to see Joseph's name in stone somewhere. Most of my Allday family were baptised at St Martin's (in some cases after an earlier baptism at the Old Meeting House). I understand Joseph was warden there for some thirteen years.

Knowing nothing of bell-ringing I've just been reading up on what it is about a particular twelve bell peal that would merit such a monument. Those recorded sound quite the feats of complexity and labour.
Click to expand...
I was looking for a possible dissenters/nonconformist link when I found the info. Only recently came across bells as a source of info myself.
 
Tinpot said:
I was looking for a possible dissenters/nonconformist link when I found the info. Only recently came across bells as a source of info myself.
Click to expand...
Judging from the baptism records, John Allday joined his wife Jane's chapel when they married, and their first children were baptized there. Though Jane herself was a Londoner, her family were Scottish, so I'd guess she was Scots Presbyterian.

Joseph comes across as something of an Anglican supremacist, and wrote scathingly in the  Argus about the Wellington's Catholic Emancipation Act. I suspect he may not have been particularly tolerant of non-conformism either.

John and Joseph were partners in a wire-working venture, but reportedly had a major falling out, and split their businesses in 1826. The same year, all John and Jane's children were re-christened at St Martin's, so I wonder if religious differences may have been a factor in John and Joseph's quarrel.

Jane being buried at Warstone Lane, I guess her new Anglican family ties overrode her non-conformist roots.
 
14th october 1861 - Birmingham Daily Post
I assume this article (which you may have seen) is about the right Joseph Allday - mention of wife Ann. This is th strt of a long article so have posted the start only.
1682863230380.png
 
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pjmburns said:
14th october 1861 - Birmingham Daily Post
I assume this article (which you may have seen) is about the right Joseph Allday - mention of wife Ann. This is th strt of a long article so have posted the start only.
View attachment 179962
Click to expand...
interesting article...as most will know the pub mentioned is now called just the jewellers arms and is still very much up and running and i was also wondering what make of car would have been around in 1861

lyn
 
Astoness said:
interesting article...as most will know the pub mentioned is now called just the jewellers arms and is still very much up and running and i was also wondering what make of car would have been around in 1861

lyn
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His car is very early, I think it may have been imported as Daimler was not founded until more than twenty years after. Perhaps a gas or steam engine?
 
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pjmburns said:
14th october 1861 - Birmingham Daily Post
I assume this article (which you may have seen) is about the right Joseph Allday - mention of wife Ann. This is th strt of a long article so have posted the start only.
View attachment 179962
Click to expand...
Thanks Janice - that's the right Joseph and Ann, yes. I've read the coverage of the inquest in Aris' Birmingham Gazette, but I'm not sure I've read the Birmingham Daily Post article, which looks more detailed. Am just taking at look at it in the British Newspaper Archive now.
 
pjmburns said:
I wondered that but both articles put "car".
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My thinking was that "car" wouldn't have yet taken on its modern meaning by the 1860s.
I see online sources suggesting that the first recorded use of "car" to mean "automobile" was in the 1890s, e.g.:

Car « The Word Detective

The tiger in my tank is very tired. Dear Word Detective: Don't know why, but the word "car" popped into my head the other day. I've lived with it all my life and always taken it for granted.
www.word-detective.com www.word-detective.com

Prior to that, I think it could mean any wheeled vehicle. Wiktionary reckons there was Birmingham-specific usage of the word to mean a four-wheeled cab:
en.wiktionary.org

car - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org en.wiktionary.org

There would have been things like this about at the time, I guess, but I don't know if they would have yet evolved into a form practical for dropping someone home from a night out:
birminghamhistoryblog.wordpress.com

Dr Church’s Steam Carriage

Experiments with steam transport dates back possibly to as early as the 17th century, but it was with the expansion of road links in the later 18th century that interest in developing efficient for…
birminghamhistoryblog.wordpress.com birminghamhistoryblog.wordpress.com
 
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