WWII Uniform and Rank

[Morturn]

This is a photo of my dad. Taken around 1944/5 he went into he army at 18 in the last moths of the war. I know he was in the Royal Worcester Regiment and was at Norton barracks for a short time.

I understand that he was in the Cavalry but ended up as a Paratrooper.

Can anyone identify this uniform and his rank if possible? Thanks, in anticipation.

 

[Out in the sticks Brummy]

The R.A looks like he may have been Royal Artillery and also the jodhpurs your Dad has no sign of a rank on the arm or pips on the Epaulettes I can't quite make out the cap badge

 

[maypolebaz]

Are you sure this photo was taken in '44 -'45, Morturn ?
That gentleman is wearing Service Dress, he is a Gunner in the Royal Artillery. (He is wearing spurs so he could be a Driver).
The thing is, by 1944 the British Army were wearing Battledress and were pretty much mechanised. This photo must have been taken during, or in the period after, WW1.

 

[Phil]

The badge he is wearing in his cap is definitely Royal Artillery. and the badge on his collars look like one of the fusilier regiments to me but I'm not so sure about that one. His uniform looks like it predates WW2 to me as well.

 

[jmadone]

I agree it's pre WW2 but the badge looks like a grenadier's badge. Did the Royal Artillery have grenadiers?

 

[Eric Gibson]

Perhaps ceremonial dress for occasions like yesterday's changing of the guard where they still use horse drawn guns.

 

[Morturn]

Thanks, you all for your replies.

I am absolutely certain that this is WWII, he was born in 1927, so was 18 in 1946. I also know his period of active serve in WWII was a few months.

He did speak about being the Royal Artillery and talked about the 25 pounders, which he fired.

He also made several parachute jumps.

I know he was also involved with horses so am wondering if he was a member of the Horse Grenadiers at some stage.

Interesting how there is never a definitive answer even in family history. He came back from the war quite damaged in my opinion. He was also quite bitter the way other British soldiers were treated by the army and government, as he said life was cheap. Whatever he witnessed in the war certainly had an adverse impact on him and left him with a past he did not want. His experiences most certainly had an impact on his life going forward, he never became the person he wanted to be.

This did have a significant effect on his marriage and family life. He put up this great big barrier that stopped us loving him as a farther, the way he should have been loved. I thought I knew his well, but all I ever got to know was the adverse defensive side of him that he bought back form the war.

After all these years, I can now let go of this past and would love to get to know him and understand his life.

 

[Spargone]

There are too many things that don't 'add up' here. First of all there never was a 'Royal Worcestershire Regiment', that's a combination of a pottery and a regiment. Secondly it is very rare for servicemen to transfer between regiments and certainly with such a short service record.
The lapel badges do look like those of a Grenadier, a guards regiment, yet the shoulder badge is clearly Royal Artillery, yet another regiment. I think it was only Montgomery who got away with 'mix and match'!
The belt is surely worn far too tight and where is the shoulder strap?

Some people tell a good tale. There used to be an account on the web of a pilot that landed his Mosquito alongside an un-guarded ME262, repaired his engine, (which is why he landed), and then flew back home. I believe he actually developed film from PRU aircraft.

 

[postie]

my wife's uncle served in the Royal horse &royal field artillery and was based at 67th bdg at Worcester.

 

[maypolebaz]

There are too many things that don't 'add up' here. First of all there never was a 'Royal Worcestershire Regiment', that's a combination of a pottery and a regiment. Secondly it is very rare for servicemen to transfer between regiments and certainly with such a short service record.
The lapel badges do look like those of a Grenadier, a guards regiment, yet the shoulder badge is clearly Royal Artillery, yet another regiment. I think it was only Montgomery who got away with 'mix and match'!
The belt is surely worn far too tight and where is the shoulder strap?

Some people tell a good tale. There used to be an account on the web of a pilot that landed his Mosquito alongside an un-guarded ME262, repaired his engine, (which is why he landed), and then flew back home. I believe he actually developed film from PRU aircraft.

I think I'd better put things straight on the badges worn in the photo.
As I said earlier, this is a photo of a Gunner in the RA. The collar badges are called "Grenades" and are worn by all ranks of the RA. His cap badge is of the Royal Artillery and his shoulder titles confirm it.
The belt is simply a leather belt, there is no shoulder strap because, as a Gunner, he does not wear a Sam Browne.
I was in the RA for a long time.

 

[Morturn]

There are too many things that don't 'add up' here. First of all there never was a 'Royal Worcestershire Regiment', that's a combination of a pottery and a regiment. Secondly it is very rare for servicemen to transfer between regiments and certainly with such a short service record.
The lapel badges do look like those of a Grenadier, a guards regiment, yet the shoulder badge is clearly Royal Artillery, yet another regiment. I think it was only Montgomery who got away with 'mix and match'!
The belt is surely worn far too tight and where is the shoulder strap?

Some people tell a good tale. There used to be an account on the web of a pilot that landed his Mosquito alongside an un-guarded ME262, repaired his engine, (which is why he landed), and then flew back home. I believe he actually developed film from PRU aircraft.

When we gain a deeper understanding of history, some of us will leave that it never ‘adds up’. The “Royal Worcester Regiment” was only from my constructed memories of my dads’ narratives and placed here for clarification, elicit questions and discussion, not here as fact.

I mention his ‘active’ service record, the term spent in active service, not his actual service record which was over four years.

The shoulder strap, or Sam Brown would have been for officers, he was not an officer. He did seem to have a number of roles in the army, which is what I am trying to find more about.

 

[Morturn]

I think I'd better put things straight on the badges worn in the photo.
As I said earlier, this is a photo of a Gunner in the RA. The collar badges are called "Grenades" and are worn by all ranks of the RA. His cap badge is of the Royal Artillery and his shoulder titles confirm it.
The belt is simply a leather belt, there is no shoulder strap because, as a Gunner, he does not wear a Sam Browne.
I was in the RA for a long time.

The power of posting. Thank you maypolebaz for clarifying this, its started to make sense now.

 

[maypolebaz]

A (very dim) light bulb just came on in my head.
I don't know why I never thought of this before.
Morturn, could your Dad have originally joined the Army as a Boy Soldier ?
I'm kicking myself because, when I joined up as a Junior Soldier, in '57, I wore Service Dress too.
There was a Boy's Battery in existence as far back as the 1930s.
I offer this as an explanation for your Dad wearing Service Dress in the photo.

 

[Spargone]

Why not apply for a copy of his service record?

Get a copy of military service records.

 

[Phil]

Didn't the Royal Artillery gunners wear a white lanyard on their left shoulder originating from the time when each of them carried a fuse key on around their necks then over time it developed into a lanyard which went around the left shoulder and the key in the pocket.

 

[Morturn]

I have not looked at his remaining belonging since he died. Its all in a box, so its time to take a look.

 

[Spargone]

Didn't the Royal Artillery gunners wear a white lanyard on their left shoulder originating from the time when each of them carried a fuse key on around their necks then over time it developed into a lanyard which went around the left shoulder and the key in the pocket.

As per my grandfather (in 1915)? I understand that by WW2 the lanyard had moved to the right shoulder.
I am intrigued that the original image is 'half-toned' as if it came from a newspaper/book and that might add some context.

 

[Morturn]

I am intrigued that the original image is 'half-toned' as if it came from a newspaper/book and that might add some context.

It is a photograph that is printed on a diamond textured paper. Used to be quite common years back as it was an attempt at producing a none reflective surface. What has happend is the surface has worn off on the high spots.

 

[Astoness]

hi mort...reading your thread with interest and pleased that you now feel able to delve into your dads difficult life...noted he would only have been 12 when ww2 started...open that box mort it may just help

lyn

 

[mw0njm.]

View attachment 134872 As per my grandfather (in 1915)? I understand that by WW2 the lanyard had moved to the right shoulder.
I am intrigued that the original image is 'half-toned' as if it came from a newspaper/book and that might add some context.

this pic was supposed to be 1955, the lanyard is on the left. i still am no wiser as to when it changed sides.

 

[maypolebaz]

this pic was supposed to be 1955, the lanyard is on the left. i still am no wiser as to when it changed sides.

Regiments often wore their own lanyards, they were a variety of colours and sometimes worn on the left shoulder and sometimes on the right, depending on tradition.
This picture is of an actor wearing the uniform of the RAF, in a comedy show called "Get Some In !"

 

[Lady Penelope]

Thanks, you all for your replies.

I am absolutely certain that this is WWII, he was born in 1927, so was 18 in 1946. I also know his period of active serve in WWII was a few months.

He did speak about being the Royal Artillery and talked about the 25 pounders, which he fired.

He also made several parachute jumps.

I know he was also involved with horses so am wondering if he was a member of the Horse Grenadiers at some stage.

Interesting how there is never a definitive answer even in family history. He came back from the war quite damaged in my opinion. He was also quite bitter the way other British soldiers were treated by the army and government, as he said life was cheap. Whatever he witnessed in the war certainly had an adverse impact on him and left him with a past he did not want. His experiences most certainly had an impact on his life going forward, he never became the person he wanted to be.

This did have a significant effect on his marriage and family life. He put up this great big barrier that stopped us loving him as a farther, the way he should have been loved. I thought I knew his well, but all I ever got to know was the adverse defensive side of him that he bought back form the war.

After all these years, I can now let go of this past and would love to get to know him and understand his life.

Morturn, how sad your post made me when I read it. You could have been writing about both my father-in-law and own father. My husband's father was captured at Anzio and spent his 21st birthday in a POW camp. A changed young man when he came home. My own father was on the North Atlantic Convoys and never really spoke about that time. Both suffered from depression in later years which certainly affected both families.

 

[Vivienne14]

Thread closed as the topic has now run it’s course. Viv.

Edit. Moderators have discussed and agreed to remove posts from this thread which were off-topic and didn’t help to answer Morturn’s query in post #1. Thank you all for your contributions. Viv.