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Memorial found in a skip

Astoness said:
wam i think you will find the 100 year ruling has well passed with regards to these men ??..they were all born in the 1800s and all died at least 100 years ago...just because the mary st school admissions register may run until 1940 does not mean its closed with regards to the fallen men..maybe someone should approach the archives dept at birmingham library...

just as an aside i was able to view my infants and juniors admissions page (1958) but what was out of bounds was the punishment records...

lyn
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Open the page in your original link. Click on the catalogue number. you get this page http://calmview.birmingham.gov.uk/C...px?src=CalmView.Catalog&field=RefNo&key=S+130
Click the + sign by 1 - Boys' Department (1878-1930) it expands to show 1 - Log book that links to http://calmview.birmingham.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=S+130/1/1
Look at that page for Access Status and it says Closed (Content) . That means they won't let you look at it. Since it's already 75 years since the finishing date, I assume it's the 100 year rule. There are some things where they don't apply this. The Local History Society has a project on the emigration homes and because a lot of the material has been duplicated on the internet in Canada, they're applying Canadian rules to parts of that archive (75 years).

Looking at the way they've listed it, I'm surprised they let you at your record. Nevertheless, that's what they say the access and I wouldn't guarantee that they'd let anyone at the relevant bits.
 
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Have come a bit late to this thread. Are we consentrating on Balsall Heath and Moseley?

May get some joy under "Memorials" In Nov 1296 there is an unveiling of one for the Artillery at Stoney Lane Barracks. Will continue search
 
One other thing that came up today. The plaque measures 80 cm by 55 cm, or 32 inches by 22 inches.
 
For what it's worth I have added pins to a modern map of the area. The pin locations are the parent's addresses as stated on Wam's chart. They are not located on the house numbers. A very small number of addresses are off this map and maybe because the parents moved.

I not sure whether it tells us much but something linked them to be put on the memorial in a building somewhere.
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Pedrocut said:
Have come a bit late to this thread. Are we consentrating on Balsall Heath and Moseley?

May get some joy under "Memorials" In Nov 1296 there is an unveiling of one for the Artillery at Stoney Lane Barracks. Will continue search
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Probably a good idea to concentrate on that area, more than half of the names came from BH and another fifth from moseley. See the pdf with post 100 for detail. I doubt this would be a particular military barracks given the diversity of regiments they wound up in. It's probably not a school. Although a lot seem to be late teens/early 20s there's the odd few into the late 20s/early 30s and if it was a school I'd either expect the distribution to be more even or the older ones to be teachers (not according to profession). I also think it's safe to exclude the Quakers from this. These aren't non-military staff and three of them probably worked in arms manufacture before the war (Gun Factory, BSA - used to be Birmingham Small Arms). I'm not sure what the stance of the congregational churches is on this but, from looking at some of the church sites, it does seem to be similiar.
 
oldMohawk said:
For what it's worth I have added pins to a modern map of the area. The pin locations are the parent's addresses as stated on Wam's chart. They are not located on the house numbers. A very small number of addresses are off this map and maybe because the parents moved.

I not sure whether it tells us much but something linked them to be put on the memorial in a building somewhere.
View attachment 127737
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There should be more than that, if only the Stones on Balsall Heath Road, but that's a fair view of the distribution for most of them.
 
The men's names may have been recorded in a parish church even if they did not attend that particular one. We have a memorial at St Michael's church in Boldmere which includes men who were not members of the congregation and who also appear on other church memorials such as the nearby Baptist church. They just lived in the parish and St Michael's was the parish church at that time (it has altered over time with new parishes being cut out of old ones and parish boundaries changing). There used to be a map at the library of Birmingham parishes but I expect that this has long gone. Has a parish church been taken over by another religion in this area?
 
i really dont understand this 100 year rule...i always thought that after 100 years had passed since the date of birth of the person you are searching info for then they are assumed dead and so therefore safe to open their records even if it applied to 100 years since the date of the event in this case when they started school its still past the 100 year rule as is when they all died which was no later than 1918 and as said these men were all born in the 1800s ...wish someone would explain it to me...a couple of years back i was also allowed to access my grandads work records from the 1920s...he worked for chances glass...seems to me that these rules are made up as they go along...

lyn
 
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An article in the Birmingham Mail of Wednesday 28 November 1917 states that Alfred Pepperell worked for the Birmingham Branch of the Liverpool, London and Globe Insurance Co. It also states that he was a member of the St. John's Ambulance Association.
Jonny
 
Welcome to the forum Jonny and thank you for adding to this thread. As you can see we are keen to find out as much as we can to help with finding the memorial's original location. We're also building up a picture of the named men. So thank you. Viv.
 
Astoness said:
i really dont understand this 100 year rule...i always thought that after 100 years had passed since the date of birth of the person you are searching info for then they are assumed dead and so therefore safe to open their records even if it applied to 100 years since the date of the event in this case when they started school its still past the 100 year rule as is when they all died which was no later than 1918 and as said these men were all born in the 1800s ...wish someone would explain it to me...a couple of years back i was also allowed to access my grandads work records from the 1920s...he worked for chances glass...seems to me that these rules are made up as they go along...

lyn
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There are 2 issues with the boys records - first the state of the log book as it says This volume is in very poor condition and should not be served. Second the fact that the volume contains material covered by the 100 year rule.
That said I suspect that these entries are not updated so it would be worth enquiring - pointing out that the people you want are deceased.
 
Some additional info about Pte Albert James Giles which isn't on Wam's spreadsheet.

He also served with the Kings Own Yorks Light Infantry (#25520). And when he was with the Machine Gun Corps (#9412) he was with the infantry.
His wife was Daisy Amy Wilkinson (formerly Giles - so married again after his death) of 283 Highgate Road Sparkbrook
He is buried at Hamel Mil Cemetery Beaumont Hamel

I shall post any other additional info I find to this thread. Viv.
 
pjmburns said:
There are 2 issues with the boys records - first the state of the log book as it says This volume is in very poor condition and should not be served. Second the fact that the volume contains material covered by the 100 year rule.
That said I suspect that these entries are not updated so it would be worth enquiring - pointing out that the people you want are deceased.
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thanks jan...i feel quite confident that once explained that these men are all deceased and the nature of the search the library staff would be able to do a fine search of the school records or any school records come to that....i am still thinking that a school could be the connection between all of the men..

lyn
 
A half hour's search of old Kelly's Directories has revealed that St John's Ambulance Association have had / may still have premises at the following addresses:-
49 Hawthorn Road, Perry Barr/Kingstanding
100 Lionel Street and
1073 Warwick Road, B27
but not so far revealed anything in the Balsall Heath or Moseley area. Their current website has no archive material, but does encourage affiliations from schools. I think we would need to find more than one member out of the 32 names to make this direction really worth pursuing. But my knowledge of Balsall Heath is limited to riding through it on the old number 48 route bus sixty years ago!

Maurice
 
I thought,initially that the SJAB might be a pointer, however, they are rather proud of their emblem and I am sure if there was a connection with SJAB then their emblem would be prominent rather than the wreath.
 
hi alan yes ive discounted a connection with st johns ambulance simply because there are 31 names on the plaque i think and although it is possible if they all belonged to the local SJAS most if not all of its members could have died..

does anyone have access to the british newspaper archives... think its the birmingham post that printed details of all those who died in battle..could be some pointers there..

lyn
 
Birmingham Daily Post 11 May 1915...

As it is listed that Leonard died in April 1916 and lies in Roeux, does it mean he returned to the Front ? RIP


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thanks pedro just what we need...if you could find any of the other men in the newspapers would be most grateful...only a chance but they could help us connect these men...

lyn
 
brill pedro cant make out the name of the co where raymond worked but it was not the gun factory maybe just a few more would at least discount the same place of work..thanks pedro

lyn
 
Under 53 Malvern St. There is H Howes for “The City Battalion” list of applicants in the Sept. 1914 Birmingham Daily Post.

This does not tally with the list, so maybe there is another Malvern Street?
 
In the Birmingham Daily Post for July 1918 Harry is posted as missing. The list says he died in June, so maybe later than July they received the sad news. RIP

E40F833F-1891-4D09-AD35-510E39968196.jpeg
 
As an aside it appears to me that this has turned into a marvelous thread. 100 years after the end of the Great War 32 casualties have been remembered even though they were confined to the skip. RIP
 
Some very helpful information coming out here. I think I shall gather the information together at some point about the soldiers and keep it on a closed thread like we did for our Erdington postmen. That way it’s quick and easy to access for anyone interested. Keep posting to this thread please, very interesting information being uncovered. Meanwhile the hunt continues ..... ! Viv.
 
Pedrocut said:
As an aside it appears to me that this has turned into a marvelous thread. 100 years after the end of the Great War 32 casualties have been remembered even though they were confined to the skip. RIP
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absolutely pedro...i would like to think that wherever they are these men know that they most certainly have not been forgotten now and who knows as with the fallen postmen some of their rellies may come forward:)

thanks for freds snippet pedro...again no work place connection but it does mention that he was a pupil at clifton road school balsall heath...could be getting somewhere now....find a few more who attended the same school and we could have cracked it...only could mind..

lyn
 
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yes phil as said in my last post...the newspaper snippets could well solve this one

ly
 
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