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Birmingham buses

Post 1260 shows former BCT bus 2847 JOJ 847 on an Outer Circle journey with the PTE. This bus was unique as far as BCT rear entrance open platform buses were concerned as the rear platform, as an experiment after an accident, had electing folding doors fitted. It was part of an order of buses (JOJ 776 - JOJ 900) which went into service during 7/52 and 7/53. The accident caused the rear to be completely rebuilt by Midland Red's Carlyle Road works receiving the electric doors and a Cave-Brown-Cave heating system. The intake air vent can be seen just below the destination box on the nearside of the bus. It returned to traffic on 10/12/59 to spend most of its service at Cotteridge garage I have to say that the rebuild spoiled the appearance of the bus and as such was possibly why other BCT open platform buses were not similarly treated.
 
Post 1265 is another view of the same bus I commented upon in Post 1261. The principal difference is the dirty condition, due to the snow, it is in.
 
Former BCT bus 1334 FOP 334, a wartime austerity bodied bus new in 1942 and worked from Yardley Wood garage. It was withdrawn in 1949 - most wartime built buses has short lives with the corporation. The photos show its original and altered state when with A.J.Davies & Sons of Merthyr Tydfil.

iu

iu
 
Radiorails said:
Former BCT bus 1334 FOP 334, a wartime austerity bodied bus new in 1942 and worked from Yardley Wood garage. It was withdrawn in 1949 - most wartime built buses has short lives with the corporation. The photos show its original and altered state when with A.J.Davies & Sons of Merthyr Tydfil.

iu

iu
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Weren't they referred to as 'utility' buses, due to lack of raw materials during wartime? Incidentally, the registration #FOP 334, our dad's lorry was FOP 979.
Dave A
 
Here is another that found a good home after the city withdrew it.
59 AOP 59 was a Daimler which went into service in 1935. One of a batch of 20 buses that during part of the second world war were converted into ambulances. Based at Tennant Street garage they were returned to service during 1944 -1946 and lasted until 1950 in corporation service.
iu
 
I get the impression that Birmingham, at the beginning of WW2 was fortunate in that it had a good fleet of buses and trams. Admittedly some of the buses were around ten years old - the trams even much older - but the trams were well built. The abandoned tram routes to The Black Country and environs plus those to Hall Green and Acocks Green had received new replacement buses. The principal issues that the transport department soon faced was the calling up for HM forces of over 2100 of their staff. By 1942 in addition to the permanent staff still with the department there were very many part-time employees - drivers, conductors and cleaners. We often hear of volunteers working with charities, heritage railways and other attractions but it may surprise many that the cities transport department was assisted by no less than 2150 volunteers at this time. At the end of 1943 there were still 1500 auxiliary volunteer conductors.
The new bus deliveries, mostly by the Ministry of War Transport, consisted of 'utility' buses, many painted in overall grey with wooden slatted seats and some had no rear upper windows. In order to save fuel (I guess storage for the forthcoming D-Day landings in 1944 many bus routes that travelled around the main city loop were terminated after 7.30 pm, short of it. Probably those from the southern suburbs turned at Moat Row, other routes from the SW possible Ethel Street. This, it is claimed, saved 40,000 route miles per week. Additionally stopping places were reduced to four per mile from 6.
In the meantime planners were not idle - had to justify their work I guess and were busy drawing up the post war reconstruction plans consisting of the major ring road to be built for which parliamentary powers were sought. A five and a half hour meeting on 26th. July 1944 the Inner Ring Road scheme was finalized. From what I have read 1200 properties and 85 acres of and would be needed which will cost £M12.1 and the roadworks £M2.5.
Given that at that date allied forces were still fighting - and dying - on battlefields, thousands were homeless and much of the countries towns and cities were in an appalling state of repair and dereliction. Not to mention wide scale material shortages and debt, it seemed that those in power were 'almost ready to go'. However political change and common sense pushed this premature idea onto the back burner.
 
Radiorails said:
Here is another that found a good home after the city withdrew it.
59 AOP 59 was a Daimler which went into service in 1935. One of a batch of 20 buses that during part of the second world war were converted into ambulances. Based at Tennant Street garage they were returned to service during 1944 -1946 and lasted until 1950 in corporation service.
iu
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That looks like the bus I have in infant memory. My Dad took me up to the Maypole terminus to see a bus, just like that one, covered in fairy lights. I was told it was decked out to celebrate V J Day.
I can still see the driver, smiling at me. I must've been 3 years old.
 
That trip out with your Dad must have been quite memorable for you to remember it at the young age you were.
Actually it was VE Day, I cannot find any reference to a VJ Day bus - unless the same one was used. Maybe someone will know about that.
The bus concerned was a double decker, cut down for the event. It was bus 1116 CVP 216, a Daimler of 1937. It was called the Victory Bus. At the same time, for the same reason tramcar 341 was converted as the Victory Tram. Bus 1116 must have received a body from another bus after victory use as it remained in service until 1953.
Incidentally this class of bus was also used in converted form for the 1937 Coronation Bus 1018 CVP 118 and similar bus 1022 CVP 122 became The Festival of Britain Bus. I was granted permission to photograph this bus at its garage which was Kyotts Lake Road.
This is the description for the FOB bus, but I am sure it equally applies to the others, for the most part, probably the number of lights being different in each case.
Specification for Festival of Britain Bus.
Top salon removed, lower saloon outer panels and widows removed. Framing bolted to pillars and finished with plywood panels. Painting of frieze and Coat of Arms done by Messrs. Bert Probert Ltd.
Rear springs stiffened, extra inch of camber. 72 x 6V batteries fitted on racks on either side of the vehicle.
1016 x12 watt/24volt lamps used.
 
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devonjim said:
Did these "utility" buses have wooden slatted seats. Memories of journeys on No.44 buses in Acock's Green in 1945-46.
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Deliveries in during 1942 and 1943 did mostly have wooden slatted seats. Most bus deliveries were painted grey initially. I remember going on a few when travelling into the city. At their first overhaul they usually received upholstered seats
 
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1946 saw improvements for the transport department. Approval was given for new buses to be ordered and could now be 8ft. wide. Only one bus was delivered that year and it was a 1939 Daimler, 1235 FOF 235, which was rebodied with all metal body and included some new features. The bus was a prototype for post war BCT buses. The new bus depot at Quinton has been put on hold and Roseberry Street still had trams so many buses were parked in the open air.
In April sixteen all night routes commenced for six months, was extended for twelve as it seemed successful. Free travel for HM Forces ceased. This wartime concession commenced in 1940. However those servicemen still in 'hospital blue' still travelled free. In July the BCT had 462 trams, 1202 buses and 84 trolleybuses, approval was given to abandon the 32 Lodge Road and 33 Ladywood trams routes and replace by bus routes 96 and 95 respectively. These routes were reprieved due to the outbreak of WW2.
 
Radiorails said:
That trip out with your Dad must have been quite memorable for you to remember it at the young age you were.
Actually it was VE Day, I cannot find any reference to a VJ Day bus - unless the same one was used. Maybe someone will know about that.
The bus concerned was a double decker, cut down for the event. It was bus 1116 CVP 216, a Daimler of 1937. It was called the Victory Bus. At the same time, for the same reason tramcar 341 was converted as the Victory Tram.
Incidentally this class of bus was also used in converted form for the 1937 Coronation Bus 1018 CVP 118 and similar bus 1022 CVP 122 became The Festival of Britain Bus. I was granted permission to photograph this bus at its garage which was Kyotts Lake Road.
This is the description for the FOB bus, but I am sure it equally applies to the others, for the most part, probably the number of lights being different in each case.
Specification for Festival of Britain Bus.
Top salon removed, lower saloon outer panels and widows removed. Framing bolted to pillars and finished with plywood panels. Painting of frieze and Coat of Arms done by Messrs. Bert Probert Ltd.
Rear springs stiffened, extra inch of camber. 72 x 6V batteries fitted on racks on either side of the vehicle.
1016 x12 watt/24volt lamps used.
Click to expand...

I can only say that I was told that the bus was celebrating VJ Day.
(Why would they cut down a "double decker" for the occasion ?).
Like so many people of my vintage, (I was born '41), my brain is cluttered with early memories of WW2.
 
There must have been good reason baz to cut down that particular bus or its body. Many had been damaged during the war and and probably that bus body was one of them. In order to keep some buses on the road the bus bodies were switched. As I pointed out my old info concerns VE Day but as I suggested there is a possibility that the bus and tram were used again for VJ Day - but I have no archives on that.
 
Thank you Lloyd for the 1235 photos. I have seen a couple of the bus, in modified form, but not those. I cannot say the extra large destination blind aperture looked good and I guess those in authority thought the same. ;) Whilst there were some others 1236 - 1239 that had different bodies I cannot say I saw them for sure. As a teenager only the unusual or stunning caught my eye. One such sighting was DON 439 turning into Rea Street from Digbeth. This was on 30th. June, 1951 when I was enjoying some, short, last rides on the trolley buses as this was their last day in service.
 
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Talking about the width of BCT buses. Coach company I worked for in Stockland green employed an ex Corporation driver who had always driven 7'6" wide buses, as our coaches were 8' wide this caused a problem especially when he was driving down to South Devon where on a number of occasions he hit the bailey bridge at Cullompton causing severe damage to the N/S of the coach. The nickname he was given before he was requested to find employment elsewhere was near side Delaney.
 
Local touring and bus companies always had some 7'6" wide buses so that they could negotiate some of the Dartmoor bridges. The advent of midi buses overcame much of the need.
 
Radiorails said:
Local touring and bus companies always had some 7'6" wide buses so that they could negotiate some of the Dartmoor bridges. The advent of midi buses overcame much of the need.
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There is a reasonably new 7foot 6inch wide single deck still running the Exeter to Mortenhampstead route. It was bought especially for the service.
Bob
 
Radiorails said:
As a teenager only the unusual or stunning caught my eye. One such sighting was DON 439 turning into Rea Street from Digbeth. At that time it was only distinguishable by its registration having been rebodied.
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11 39 (DON 439) wasn't a rebody, it was actually the first of the next batch built early to be displayed at the commercial motor show that year (which due to the war didn't happen). In other circumstances it would have been 101 (EOG 101).

1139 DON 439 advert.jpg
 
I have re-checked my info on 1139 and David H (a good friend of your I guess) makes no mention of a re-bodying. Maybe my tired eyes got that confused with another number. :eek:
Birmingham seemed to get a few of its buses shown at Commercial Motor shows but they were a big fish in a large pond.
One thing that springs to mind is that it is the oddities are always well remembered where they were seen as well. As far as 1139 is concerned as I did not notice the front of the bus it was only the near side and rear that I saw. Hence I spotted the unique registration.
I have edited my original post to omit the inaccuracy.
 
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Following on from my post 1286 I mention more oddities I recall. I must have seen most and ridden on a large percentage of the 100 HOV registered Leyland PD2's. However the one that is my memory bank is the first of them, HOV 656 (1656). Having its registration plate at the top of the radiator made it stand out. I first saw it when very new at Baldwins Lane. Another oddity was HOV 803 (1803) a Daimler which had a three track route number fitted experimentally. 1803 was new in 1948, had the route number box fitted in mid 1949 and was a prototype for the new look buses that came the next year. It apparently did the round of garages to acquaint staff with what was to come. I saw this bus in 1952 when operating on the Inner Circle 8 route in Monument Road and was approaching the traffic lights at the crossroads in Monument Road/Spring Hill/ Summer Hill Road/ Icknield Street.
GOE 655 (1655), a Crossley, was seen in Colmore Row in 1950 on a fine summer day. Its engine sound was the clue to it being unusual as it had different mechanics to the other nine of the delivery.
A personal favourite was HOJ 396 (295). This was a Leyland prototype and was put into service at the end of July 1947. It could be seen often on Yardley Wood garage routes in the early days. In 1953, knowing the conductor, I rang the bell from Digbeth to Baldwins Lane.
 
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My post 1288 lists some unusual looking BCT buses which was part of the fleet and was chosen by the BCT.
The following are oddities that were not chosen but allocated to the corporation by the Ministry of War Transport.
Four Daimler buses, unusually at the time 8ft. wide, were FVP 920 - 923 (1320 - 1323). They were known as Jo'burgs as they were destined for Johannesburg, South Africa, but were not shipped due to WW2. They arrived in service in early 1942 in all over grey livery. I saw all of them at one time or another in the early 1950's, usually in Colmore Row on service 9 Quinton. By that time they were in BCT colours and had the route number box removed. Sadly I never rode on one. These had gone by 1954.
FON 324 - 326 (1324 - 1326) and FON 629 (1329) were Leylands which had been destined for a Scottish bus company (Western SMT), However Birmingham got them in 1942. They were all gone by 1954. I liked these buses and their interiors were noticeably different in that they had blue covered moquette seats rather than the usual BCT brown.
Also with FON registrations were FON 327, FON 628 and 630. These were also Leylands but as they had utility bodies were not of interest to me at the time.
Other usual buses were those that carried English Electirc bodies that were originally for Manchester. Their chassis were destroyed in a Coventry air raid so were spare. Birmingham bought fifty four of them and fitted then on buses that had been destroyed or badly damaged in the cities air raids. Later in their life they were fitted to replace worn out bus bodies. I personally did not like their appearance and were quite recognizable with a contoured front.
 
Post 1287 showing AEC 504 bus OP 208 (fleet no. 179) was new in 1926. It was not long lived being withdrawn in 1935. It is shown operating route 7 Perry Common to Portland Road. The return service showed Perry Common 5. That lasted until 1939 when an extension to Court Lane was numbered 5A, with short working still as 5. In 1964 the full route became 5.
A reminder that none of my posts give any details after the BCT became part of WMPTE. I have no interest in the PTE and few archives about it.
 
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