• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

ANN STREET CITY CENTRE

On looking at the (copy of) the original, it states that it is from "The survey of birmingham in 1553" edited by Bickery & Hill, and is stated as "drawn from various old palns & private surveys from information contained in th surveys of Henry VIII and Queen Mary and from other authorititive surveys" Joseph Hill lived 1835-1914, and the map is mostly based on info from the Crown survey of 1553
Mike
 
Going back to the file manufactory for just a minute, I thought I had posted the follwoing yesterday, but I obviously fogot to click 'Post' or something!

I agree that the image out of the window is likely to be a composite to represent the things that are visible, rather than a 'real view' and that we probably can't say exactly what the buildings are. However, I came across a couple of things yesterday that made me look at the 'view' again - the attached picture of the Canal Offices (taken from Chris Upton's History of Birmingham) and also a 'brick kiln' marked on the 1834 map (in History in Maps) in the area that is now Gas Street (i.e. 'behind the canal offices'. The canal offices does look remarkably like the building in the 'view'. What would the brick kilns have looked like?

canal_office_paradise_street.jpg
 
Last edited:
Aidans 1731 map shows the pool with a berm around one side; which is what we would expect...that side being the down hill side. What the tail represents is intrigueing. It seems from Mike that the 1553 map is based on reliable material. First sighting here of this pool for me and also the first sighting of The New Hall albeit ever so small. It also has it's own fish pool seemingly. I was thinking that ditches surrounding fields...maybe dug to do so, would also carry any stream water and perhaps parts of the ditch system would also have been the original stream bed. Maybe this would have explained the weird shape of some fields.
Anyway it seems fairly safe to say that there was a supply of water on hand for a grindstone. Perhaps polution from growing industry had an effect on the demise of the pools for fish.
Which way the view through the open door looks is open to question...I subscribe to the view being towards St Phillips though. The canal offices were smallish. If this building was set back from Ann Street, then the kiln/furnace could have been in a yard. Parhps molten metal was produced to pour into moulds to make files...or heat treatment of blades. The jybe could be outside the building for moving moulds and cupulas about for this kind of process. It would be a factory without forklifts.
 
Bin pondering on the Pool some more. Of it's existence there can be little doubt. Its position among all the steep inclines is not natural and I agree must have been formed by the Monks for a fish pool. Apart from the improbable inclines is the terroir issue. I think the ridge is limestone which is permeable. Therefore the Monks must have lined it (I imagine with puddled clay like the canals - must of been a considerable job. The 1731 Map doesn't name it as even a pool so I am wondering if it had drained by then as there were no Monks to maintain it (and perhaps climatic conditions of which I know little at that time). The permeable limestone would have meant an underground source though likely a fair distance down. Not sure of the possibility of a natural spring near the top but a ditch stream feeding the pond (planned or otherwise) is certainly a possibility (and would help the farms and orchards around)
 
I thought that sandstone was the make-up of the ground there. At least that is what is shown in recent excavations in that area.
 
I am not 100% sure on it, I read about it somewhere and can't put my hand on it now. Anyway the point is I think that it is pervious and therefore probably means that whatever water was there would have had to be designed and maintained.
 
Temple Row leads directly from the old Priory/Square around the cherry orchard to the pool. Must have been a path trod frequently in olden times and sandled feet. Not sure how much farming would have been done here...the soil was not great for this activity, I read, but must have been good enough for the kitchens garden. I wonder how this Row got it's name...Temple. Does this signify anything. Could there have been some sort of temple at the pool...maybe there was a small cascade of water contrived there and cerimonial services or something.
 
Anywhere with Temple in its name usually means that it was land owned in medieval times by the Knights Templar as in Temple Balsall near Balsall Common in Warwickshire. The Priory now part of Queensway was a monastical institution but whether it had any connection with the Templars, I do not know.
 
Interesting, David. Never knew that. With respect to the pool; I see that Priory Brook ran in an easterly direction not far North of Colmore Row and possibly was leated to there from further upstream. It would have run from the Edgebaston area. Quite a long run for a leat but not unusual in the Birmingham area and the downhill, north of Colmore, would have given a decent head for a wheel if the water volume was worth it. The last point may be why no reference can be found about a mill here and since the pool was also a private entity belonging to a forcibly dissolved order; then perhaps it could easily have been forgotten.

If the engraving and annotation of the grindstone in the file making plant is correct though, perhaps this leat was used again for just this one application which would only have needed a relatively small supply of water possibly.
 
Before canals and way back Priory Brook ran down from Edgebaston and seemingly a wier may have been made at Summer Row (not lane). This wier would have been 500 yards as the crow flies north west of the Philippes Pole on what was to be Colmore Row. The elevations given on the 1890 survey indicate that this could have been used and a leat dug from there.

So water supply was in the offing and if the Grindstone picture and information is correct , the above water supply would probably have been used and the fishpond was indeed a possibility. Don't think in terms of large volumes of water though. The supply would probably have been modest and hence no major milling operation data available to see.

The following links for ref :https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...id=10098&ox=790&oy=1125&zm=1&czm=1&x=22&y=227

https://www.bgfl.org/bgfl/custom/re...teacher/history/jm_jones/jmj_maps_1/page9.htm
 
Whilst looking for something else, I came across this picture and article about the Newhall Street end of Ann Street. I didn’t photograph the photograph – I will do it next time I go. In the meantime, I thought that the inferior picture was better than nothing.
I'd not seen it before; it's interesting as it shows the other end of the road from the other photos. In fact, the buildings on the extreme left also appear on the right of one of the other pictures. So, we now have the whole road on that side. That is the side of the file manufactory. I would so like to be able to identify which one it is! Nine members of the family lived at 27 Ann Street – the file manufactory.
The article is also interesting – it’s about the bookseller on the corner.

Click on the links below to see full-size images

thumb_Ann-Street-Newhall-Street-1.jpg
https://images.birminghamhistory.co...serpics/10015/Ann-Street-Newhall-Street-1.jpg

thumb_Ann-Street-Newhall-Street-2.jpg
https://images.birminghamhistory.co...serpics/10015/Ann-Street-Newhall-Street-2.jpg

thumb_Ann-Street-Newhall-Street-3.jpg
https://images.birminghamhistory.co...serpics/10015/Ann-Street-Newhall-Street-3.jpg
 
Last edited:
dennis what absolutely wonderful pics....my heart skipped a beat i can tell you....i would think on pic 1 we are seeing the backs of the properties on pic 2..dont take my word for it though as direction is not one of my better things......and that would be christ church on the left of pic 1 which only stood for about 5 years after the pic was taken...either way im delighted to see them..

brillient..

lyn
 
Thanks for those Dennis i havn,t seen them before. i see nothing changes in the trench digging 3 blokes working and 6 watching. Dek
 
There was a school on the south side next to Christ Church. Has anyone got a picture of Ann St School? I have seen one somewhere showing an internal view of a classroom, children & teacher but cannot remember where, other than that it must have been online.

No, but I have found the male equivalent in this very interesting gem from Victor Skipp's book "The Making of Victorian Birmingham", which also links to your equally brilliant thread on Suffolk St, if a tad obtusely. Seems like that Ann St girl's school was quite novel too, in as much as it was the forerunner of Adult Education as we know it, as championed by Joseph Sturge in the mid 1800s. The male equivalent was in Severn Street, off Suffolk St. I personally profited later when I attended the Suffolk St Matthew Boulton Technical College for a term before transferring to the new premises (now also demolished) in Bristol Rd in the early 60s. Read on...
 
dennis what absolutely wonderful pics....my heart skipped a beat i can tell you....i would think on pic 1 we are seeing the backs of the properties on pic 2..dont take my word for it though as direction is not one of my better things......and that would be christ church on the left of pic 1 which only stood for about 5 years after the pic was taken...either way im delighted to see them..

brillient..

lyn

You, my hero, are particularly welcome.
 
Back
Top