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Panorama – the first Rotunda

Yes I think so, somewhere under that block. No hope of archaeology anytime soon. Christ Church was about where you took the picture from I think -or were you standing on the doorstep of Allin's ?? :shh:

The slope question is an interesting one, both paintings seem to show it level with New Street and I imagine it was built into the slope, either that or in front of a natural bank, which I think the Lines painting shows well https://www.bmagic.org.uk/objects/1893P72/images/139025

The beautiful building dated 1824 deserves a thread of its own if anyone knows anything about it.
 
Building is 130 Colmore row. Going backwards this is Alliance insurance in 1908. It was Crawley Parsons , metal mecrhants in 1890, and still Crawley Parsons in 1880, but by then it was listed as 43 Ann St. It is still Crawley Parsons back to 1858, though by 1855 it is listed as Mines Royal Copper Company, Crawley & Parsons , agents. In 1841-1849 it is Joseph Payton & Co, wholesale ironmongers. 1839 Edward Allarton, merchant, 1833 Blyth & Kell, merchants. In 1829 it just lists :
Blyth Edwin V. factor and merchant, Ann-st.—Residence, Islington
Blyth F. and J. C. agents, (for Kirby,Beard, & Kirby, factors, & pin manufacturers,)
Ann-st.
Over three quarters of the firms in Ann st give the number of the street, so we cannot be sure that Blyth was the owner in 1829, but I think it fairly likely
Mike
 
mikejee said:
...
Blyth F. and J. C. agents, (for Kirby,Beard, & Kirby, factors, & pin manufacturers,)
Ann-st.
...
Mike
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike, That's great - seems it was a glorified "Toy" shop as small metal items such as pins and buttons were once known and Birmingham was famous for - perhaps a "Temple of Toys" as it seems impossibly grand
 
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/for...0015/panorama_adverts_with_graphics_part1.pdf

Following on from #113, I spent the morning worining through some of the adverts. In the list below, those shown in mauve have been gathered together. I tried to concentrate on some early, some late and those that Aiden had marked as of special interest. There is a problem with the ref for 50, as the date isn't a Monday (Aris only appeared on a Monday), but I'll dig through some alternatives on my next visit.
  1. 1804/03/19 p3 "View of Ramsgate" (Barker's) first advert *
  2. 1804/06/04 p1 "View of Ramsgate" (Barker's) last advert
  3. 1805/03/11 p3 "View of Paris from the Seine" (Barker's) first advert
  4. 1805/03/25 p1 "View of Paris from the Seine" (Barker's) last advert
  5. 1806/03/10 p3 "View of Constantinople" (Barker's) first advert
  6. 1806/10/20 p3 "View of Constantinople" (Barker's) last advert
  7. 1807/03/16 p4 "View of Edinburgh" (Barker's) first advert
  8. 1807/03/16 p4 Last mention of Barker's Panorama *
  9. 1807/03/23 p1 "View of Edinburgh" (Barker's) last advert
  10. 1808/02/01 p3 Panorama by David Cox shown in Theatre Royal *
  11. 1808/04/11 p3 Explanation? *
  12. 1809/09/23 p3 "Flotilla at Boulogne" (Serries') first advert
  13. 1809/10/16 p3 not romantic fantasy
  14. 1809/11/13 p3 Better than some of the "pitiful daubs now showing" *
  15. 1809/11/13 p1 sketched from nature
  16. 1809/12/25 p3 "Flotilla at Boulogne" (Serries') last advert
  17. 1810/06/11 p3 "Seringapatam [Mysore Wars]" (Porter's) first advert
  18. 1810/06/11 p3 Parker shows Serries Boulogne *
  19. 1810/06/18 p3 "Seige of Seringapatam" Reopens *
  20. 1810/06/21 p3 Swinney's Birmingham Chronicle - Seringapatam
  21. 1810/10/01 p3 "Seringapatam [Mysore Wars]" (Porter's) last advert
  22. 1811 ?
  23. 1812/02/24 p3 "View of Paris from Notre Dame" (De Maria's) first advert
  24. 1812/06/01 p3 "View of Paris from Notre Dame" (De Maria's) last advert
  25. 1812/07/06 p3 "City & Bay of Cadiz" (Barker's) first advert
  26. 1812/09/21 p3 Audience participation? *
  27. 1812/10/26 p3 "City & Bay of Cadiz" (Barker's) last advert
  28. 1813/02/01 p3 "Ancient & Modern Rome" (Reinagle's) first advert
  29. 1813/06/21 p3 "Ancient & Modern Rome" (Reinagle's) last advert
  30. 1813/07/19 p3 "Seige of Flushing" (Barker's) first advert
  31. 1813/07/29 p3 Swinney's Birmingham Chronicle - Flushing
  32. 1813/11/01 p3 "Seige of Flushing" (Barker's) last advert + Naration offered *
  33. 1814/03/21 p3 "Burning of Moscow" (Barker's & Porter's) first advert
  34. 1814/03/28 p3 Plea by the Panorama for support *
  35. 1814/12/05 p3 reopens at night to show "Burning of Moscow" by Candlelight *
  36. 1814/12/26 p3 "Burning of Moscow" (Barker's & Porter's) last advert
  37. 1815/01/09 p3 "View of Glasgow" (John Knox's) first advert
  38. 1815/03/13 p3 "View of Glasgow" (John Knox's) last advert
  39. 1816/09/16 p2 Baskerville Place panorama blows down *
  40. 1816/11/11 p3 "Algiers" (William Turner) first advert
  41. 1816/11/25 p3 About Parker? *
  42. 1817/03/03 p3 "Algiers" (William Turner) last advert + Narration offered *
  43. 1817/04/14 p3 "Battle of Waterloo" (William Turner) first advert
  44. 1817/06/16 p3 "Battle of Waterloo" (William Turner) last advert
  45. 1817/07/17 p3 "Siege of Flushing" (Barker's) first advert
  46. 1817/07/21 p3 appeal to artists and youths fond of the pencil *
  47. 1817/08/11 p3 "Siege of Flushing" (Barker's) last advert
  48. 1817/08/18 p3 "Battle of Waterloo" (Barker's) first advert
  49. 1817/09/29 p3 "Battle of Waterloo" (Barker's) last advert *
  50. 1818/08/01 p2 Robins Brothers take over the Panorama for Auction House
Items 1 to 8 inclusive attached https://images.birminghamhistory.co.u...hics_part1.pdf
Other to follow....
 
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WOW - What a fantastic job Les, there is a lot of work there, SO kind of you. Now we can really start to delve!
 
The Crescent was off Cambridge st and can be seen on the 1808 map below.
Baskerville place in later years ran between Broad st and Cambridge st , as can be seen at https://www.british-history.ac.uk/mapsheet.aspx?compid=55193&sheetid=10098&ox=325&oy=1707&zm=1&czm=1&x=54&y=52 It is not shown on the 1808 map , or on a 1810 map, but seems to be there in 1839, next to the Baskerville Wharves.

The_crecent_map_c_1839.jpg


crescent_1808.jpg
 
Here are the last four items (as individual jpgs rather than all together)

One of these clearly says New Street, so I don't know where Baskerville Place, Crescent came in....

One other thing that I spotted yesterday whilst trawling through the pages was that Robins name comes up over and over again in notices of properties for sale by auction. Was he a latter day estate agent/property developer?

42.jpg43.jpg46.jpg49.jpg
 
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Les - That is fantastic work, thank you immensely again. There is loads of information we can glean from these.

The Crescent/Baskerville place info is about a rival Panorama which sounds a bit on the cheap end as its building blew down - any info about it acceptable on this thread though! We definitely need more info on Robins too.
 
So - the price was consistently one shilling (or five shillings for a season ticket). This is the price the London Panoramas charged once the initial novelty had worn off and as we said earlier seemed to be the going rate for "in-depth" entertainment that was competing at Allin's, Theatre Royal and perhaps other temporary (but rotating) panoramas. We also reckoned earlier that this was maybe the equivalent of half a days wage for the majority of the population.
 
Item-6 - the other early adverts refer to "Barker's Panorama" but 1806/10/20 specifically says "Mr Barker, Proprietor"
 
There is no mention of an S.J.Richardson in the Wrightsons 1815 or 1818 directories. (Aidan – I just had to correct that from 1915 & 1918 !!) . A bit off topic, but while looking I did find this advert (no apparent listing in the directory, just the advert) . It is a very bad reproduction. Possibly looking at a real copy of Wrightsons would make it clearer what exactly Richards’s Magazine is. Anyone else come across it?

advert_1818_directory_richards_magazine.JPG
 
Thanks Mike - very suggestive as it mentions "Birmingham is Miniature" - surely what a panorama might show...
 
Aidan
I think , if you enlarge the advert it says "Birmingham in miniature"
Also, with regard to Mr Robins. Mckenna in " Birmingham , the building of a city" states that in August 1825 a freehold building land surveyors, J.E. & C Robins, laid out building plots in the Asylum road and Brearley St areas varying between 115 and 364 Square yards. In 1825 also they laid out 130 plots extending westward along Bristol St and Bellbarn road . In 1851 E & C Robins surveyed the Park Estate for the Warwick bankers who had bought the Aston Hall Estate.
Mike
 
Mike Thanks

I did actually mean to type "in" - a case of not proof-checking before publishing - again!

We do need to track down a better copy of the advert but from what I can make out (corrections/guesses welcome) it says:

Birmingham in Miniature
or
RICHARDS'S
Magazine
for the Manufactures(?) of
BIRMINGHAM
and its vicinity
Established upwards of ????

Which makes it sound a lot like Allin's and a whole host of other shops of the time selling "Toys" that Birmingham made and to attract the punters something even more remarkable that would set them apart.

So I think that this is unconnected with the S.J.Richardson Panorama of Aris ref 39 and the "Birmingham in Miniature" simply means Richards is displaying/selling a large range of Birmingham (metal) products in his shop ("magazine")
 
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Although could be the first example of a related Diorama on show at Richards (now does the apostrophe go after the s alone or with another "s" - grammar alert!)...
 
Ah, now that is a tricky one :confused:
I think that the answer is that depends if it belongs to one "Richards" (in which case it is Richards's) or belongs to more than one Richard (in which case it is Richards') :)

[Hope I'm right.....!]
 
Re: Aris ref 11

So Barker's established the Birmingham Panorama originally (I think it likely that they employed a manager to run it) before Parker takes it over around 1809 for the rest of its life.

Here is a theory - Robert Barker (1739-1806) the inventor, establishes the Birmingham Panorama around 1804. His son who worked with him, Henry Aston Barker (1774-1856), inherits but wants rid (to concentrate on his art, working with Reinagle etc) so sells it to the management buy-out of John Henry Parker (c1772-1821) who has managed it all along.


Ref 11 (Apr 1808) also mentions about the "the lights are now so disposed, that the Picture may now be viewed with satisfaction in gloomy weather, as when the sun shines" - I think this is when the modification to the original Panorama (lit through diffusing light through the central skylight) to the additional skylights around the roof shown on Lines' painting (post-#40)
 
mikejee said:
What you say seems very reasonable, but it would be nice to see a better copy.
Click to expand...
Bisset's Magnificent Guide or Grand Copper Plate Directory for the Town of Birmingham, 1808, Comprising the Addresses of the most eminent Public Companies, Bankers, Merchants, Tradesmen and Manufacturers in the "Toy-Shop of Europe" alphabetically arranged in elegant and emblematic Engravings containing upwards of fifty superb Plates with Views of the Principal Buildings etc., exclusive of a view of the Royal Mint and Soho Manufactory. Dedicated by permission to His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales by J Bisset, Author of the Orphan Boy, the Converts and the Patriotic Clarion, etc., etc. Price Five Shillings or with Proof Plates, Half a Guinea, Birmingham, Printed (for the Author) by R Jabet, Herald Office, and sold by all Booksellers in the Imperial Kingdom, 1808....
...
has a "Zoomify" function
https://www.search.revolutionarypla...ource=972&exhibition=396&zoomify=93&offset=12

Birmingham, in Miniature
or
RICHARDS'S
Magazine
for the Manufactures of
BIRMINGHAM
and its vicinity
Established upwards of half a century

At No.82 and are in the Silversmiths/Jewellers/Cutlers section

The directory also shows many Auctioneers/surveyors in New St (although can't find Barker/Parker/Robins or Panorama yet) at the time. The File Manufactory is also on these pages (which on magnification shows smoke coming out of the top of what I thought was the Panorama - D'Oh - I think it likely that it is from a Glass-makers Cone rather than the small fire lit on the Panoramas viewing platform https://www.search.revolutionarypla...urce=972&exhibition=443&zoomify=130&offset=44) as well as a host of other interesting adverts and pictures including The Crescent
 
I've been to the library this afternoon and sorted out the rest of the adverts that Aiden was particularly intererested in. Some of them have a lot more commentary than the previous set and make interesting reading.

I have stuck to the original numbering, so the ones I have done today are:
14 1809/11/13 p3 Better than some of the "pitiful daubs now showing" *
14v2.jpg

18-1 and 18-2 1810/06/11 p3 Parker shows Serries Boulogne *
18-1v2.jpg18-2v2.jpg

19 1810/06/18 p3 "Seige of Seringapatam" Reopens *
19v2.jpg

26-1 and 26-2 1812/09/21 p3 Audience participation? *
32 1813/11/01 p3 "Seige of Flushing" (Barker's) last advert + Naration offered *
34 1814/03/28 p3 Plea by the Panorama for support *
35 1814/12/05 p3 reopens at night to show "Burning of Moscow" by Candlelight *
50 1818/08/17 p2 Robins Brothers take over the Panorama for Auction House
 
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:sculpturer: Les - you are a star! :sculpturer: Thank you so much for these. I will savour reading them, as will the large readership I am sure...
 
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