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Woodhouse, Gunmakers & Military connection
- Thread starter sylvie 10
- Start date
Hi Sylvia.
My 3xg grandfather was born around the same time in Birmingham according to his army records.
He was a sergeant in the 40th regiment of Foot.
I found this out from his children´s baptism records.
Men were not necessarily recruited to regiments near where they lived. The Army sent recruiting sergeants all over the country, especially in the early 1800s when there was general panic over the possibility of invasion from France.
Boys as young as 12 or 13 could enlist as boy soldiers.
Your ancestor may have gone on to fight in France during the Peninsula war. It might be worth looking on the medals list on Ancestry if his name isn´t too common.
My 3xg grandfather was born around the same time in Birmingham according to his army records.
He was a sergeant in the 40th regiment of Foot.
I found this out from his children´s baptism records.
Men were not necessarily recruited to regiments near where they lived. The Army sent recruiting sergeants all over the country, especially in the early 1800s when there was general panic over the possibility of invasion from France.
Boys as young as 12 or 13 could enlist as boy soldiers.
Your ancestor may have gone on to fight in France during the Peninsula war. It might be worth looking on the medals list on Ancestry if his name isn´t too common.
Hello,
Thanks so much for your info.
Unfortunately my 3xgrandfather's children were born all over the place.
Scotland, Ireland, Birmingham, Coventry & possibly Leicester.
All born 1815 - 1827 before civil registration & I cannot find any baptism records....anywhere!
Possibly births for Scotland & Ireland tucked away in some Military records but I have searched
for a few years & found nothing?
I am not certain that ROBERT WOODHOUSE was born in Birmingham but suspected this only because he was a gunmaker all through his life, & the gun trade being more than significent in Birmingham.
Census, marriage records for his children indicated this occupation for him also..
thanks again
Sylvia BC Canada
Thanks so much for your info.
Unfortunately my 3xgrandfather's children were born all over the place.
Scotland, Ireland, Birmingham, Coventry & possibly Leicester.
All born 1815 - 1827 before civil registration & I cannot find any baptism records....anywhere!
Possibly births for Scotland & Ireland tucked away in some Military records but I have searched
for a few years & found nothing?
I am not certain that ROBERT WOODHOUSE was born in Birmingham but suspected this only because he was a gunmaker all through his life, & the gun trade being more than significent in Birmingham.
Census, marriage records for his children indicated this occupation for him also..
thanks again
Sylvia BC Canada
Louisa
master brummie
Hi Sylvie
Just a couple of thoughts just in case it helps:
Birmingham did have a thriving gunmaking trade but the Gunmaking trade in London may have been bigger and possibly more military orientated in London.
There is a gunmakers index but I dont know if it still current: https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/Gunmakers.html
If Robert lived until the 1840 or 50 census and his family is listed then he may have given a place of birth or a birth county on these.
Was he wealthy enough to have made a will or was an obituary written about him or a place of death may yield a gravestone inscription. If he died in the UK you can search the birth, Marriage and Deaths index https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl The General Record Office also have indexes for Army registers after 1837 for any births etc.
The name Woodhouse does seem more previlent around Norfolk and there are a couple of Robert Woodhouse born there and a marriage in 1812 (as the first known child is born 1815) to Mary Bullimore 12 October 1812 North Walsham Norfolk (ref; family search batch 7222304)
If you do a parent search you find children William bapt 11 Aug 1816, Sarah Ann Bpt 27 Jun 1819, Elizabeth bat 27 June 1829. Dont know if any of these fit your family tree.
The National Archives the Army Chelsea pensioner records do list a Robert Woodhouse born Norfolk. Its on Find my Past and you need a subscription this is the link: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/army-service-records-search.action
The National Archives also have a page on how to find soldiers
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk.../britisharmysoldierupto1913.htm?WT.lp=rg-3110
https://www.rnrm.org.uk/html/links.html Norfolk Regiment
Dont know if any of this helps
Louisa
Just a couple of thoughts just in case it helps:
Birmingham did have a thriving gunmaking trade but the Gunmaking trade in London may have been bigger and possibly more military orientated in London.
There is a gunmakers index but I dont know if it still current: https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/Gunmakers.html
If Robert lived until the 1840 or 50 census and his family is listed then he may have given a place of birth or a birth county on these.
Was he wealthy enough to have made a will or was an obituary written about him or a place of death may yield a gravestone inscription. If he died in the UK you can search the birth, Marriage and Deaths index https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl The General Record Office also have indexes for Army registers after 1837 for any births etc.
The name Woodhouse does seem more previlent around Norfolk and there are a couple of Robert Woodhouse born there and a marriage in 1812 (as the first known child is born 1815) to Mary Bullimore 12 October 1812 North Walsham Norfolk (ref; family search batch 7222304)
If you do a parent search you find children William bapt 11 Aug 1816, Sarah Ann Bpt 27 Jun 1819, Elizabeth bat 27 June 1829. Dont know if any of these fit your family tree.
The National Archives the Army Chelsea pensioner records do list a Robert Woodhouse born Norfolk. Its on Find my Past and you need a subscription this is the link: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/army-service-records-search.action
The National Archives also have a page on how to find soldiers
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk.../britisharmysoldierupto1913.htm?WT.lp=rg-3110
https://www.rnrm.org.uk/html/links.html Norfolk Regiment
Dont know if any of this helps
Louisa
Thanks again for your very welcome info Louisa.
None of the children's names match unfortunately.
The IGI gives ROBERT WOODHOUSE DOB 1781 Brigham Yrks.
Married Mrs. WOODHOUSE 1820 Brigham Yrks
submitted my member which as you know usually unreliable.
The first I FOUND him
Robson's Directory 1839 West St Exeter
Gunmaker Robert Woodhouse
PIGOT'S & CO'S DIRECTORY 1844 Exeter
ROBERT WOODHOUSE Gunmaker
WHITE'S DEVONSHIRE DIRECTORY 1850 exeter
(61) GUN & PISTOL MAKERS. Woodhouse Robert,
1841 census Exeter again b. Devon?
1851 census Exeter gunmaker retired b. Brigham Yrks
1861 census Exeter workhouse
Death 1867 Exeter workhouse journeyman gunman
From his childrens marriage certs stating father's occ. ROBERT was consistant in being a Gunmaker.
However I have not been able to locate any of his children's birth records, they were all born before 1837.
I have searched for them over many years, searched Brigham for his own birth/marriage but nothing.
Also no evidence that he was indeed in the Military but because his children were born scattered about all over the place I surmised a military career?
I will chase up your web sites you advised Louisa.
Thank you again
much appreciated
Sylvia
None of the children's names match unfortunately.
The IGI gives ROBERT WOODHOUSE DOB 1781 Brigham Yrks.
Married Mrs. WOODHOUSE 1820 Brigham Yrks
submitted my member which as you know usually unreliable.
The first I FOUND him
Robson's Directory 1839 West St Exeter
Gunmaker Robert Woodhouse
PIGOT'S & CO'S DIRECTORY 1844 Exeter
ROBERT WOODHOUSE Gunmaker
WHITE'S DEVONSHIRE DIRECTORY 1850 exeter
(61) GUN & PISTOL MAKERS. Woodhouse Robert,
1841 census Exeter again b. Devon?
1851 census Exeter gunmaker retired b. Brigham Yrks
1861 census Exeter workhouse
Death 1867 Exeter workhouse journeyman gunman
From his childrens marriage certs stating father's occ. ROBERT was consistant in being a Gunmaker.
However I have not been able to locate any of his children's birth records, they were all born before 1837.
I have searched for them over many years, searched Brigham for his own birth/marriage but nothing.
Also no evidence that he was indeed in the Military but because his children were born scattered about all over the place I surmised a military career?
I will chase up your web sites you advised Louisa.
Thank you again
much appreciated
Sylvia
Louisa
master brummie
Hi Sylvi
I think the Birmingham / military angle for Robert Woodhouse sounds wrong, if I were you I would concentrate on the gunmaker profession. The fact that he was a journeyman I think refers to a craftsman who has completed his apprentiship but not yet presented a guild with his master work for him to be declared a master in his own right. Be interesting to know where he served his apprentiship.
As a journeyman he would have moved around from often town to town working for other Masters hence the children all born in different places.
Have you looked for census records for the grown up married children as this may give a birthplace clue for each of them.
As you live abroad you may know about these links:
Link to Exeter workhouse https://www.workhouses.org.uk/Exeter/#Inmates
Link to Devon Record Office https://www.devon.gov.uk/index/councildemocracy/record_office/family_history_3.htm
may hold workhouse records or poor law records for Robert between 1851 to 1867
Link to Roots Chat Board some posters do Devon Lookups https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,10.0.html
Link to Devon Family history society https://www.devonfhs.org.uk/
may have other members researching the same name or indexed local records you can have searched
Good Luck with your research
Louisa
I think the Birmingham / military angle for Robert Woodhouse sounds wrong, if I were you I would concentrate on the gunmaker profession. The fact that he was a journeyman I think refers to a craftsman who has completed his apprentiship but not yet presented a guild with his master work for him to be declared a master in his own right. Be interesting to know where he served his apprentiship.
As a journeyman he would have moved around from often town to town working for other Masters hence the children all born in different places.
Have you looked for census records for the grown up married children as this may give a birthplace clue for each of them.
As you live abroad you may know about these links:
Link to Exeter workhouse https://www.workhouses.org.uk/Exeter/#Inmates
Link to Devon Record Office https://www.devon.gov.uk/index/councildemocracy/record_office/family_history_3.htm
may hold workhouse records or poor law records for Robert between 1851 to 1867
Link to Roots Chat Board some posters do Devon Lookups https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,10.0.html
Link to Devon Family history society https://www.devonfhs.org.uk/
may have other members researching the same name or indexed local records you can have searched
Good Luck with your research
Louisa
B
BernardR
Guest
Your definition is correct but the assumption that this means he would have travelled from town to town is not necessarily so as many Journeymen woould have stayed where they trained or lived.
Journeyman is derived from the French 'Jour' meaning day not with travel.
Skilled tradesperson who has completed a prescribed apprenticeship in a particular craft. The status of journeyman indicates that an individual has mastered all the specific skills of the craft.
Last edited by a moderator:
Don´t know if this will be any help but on the Ancestry medals site there is a Robert Woodhouse, ensign, 83rd regiment of foot who was awarded a medal in the Napoleonic wars, 1803-1815.
No other details except the battles he was involved in.
I can take the details if you don´t have them.
Marion
No other details except the battles he was involved in.
I can take the details if you don´t have them.
Marion
Hello Marion & thank you,
I would most appreciate any iformation you would be kind enough to forward to me.
Battles etc would give me a clue to follow?
My email address is sjwhite@shaw.ca
Thanks again
Sylvia
I would most appreciate any iformation you would be kind enough to forward to me.
Battles etc would give me a clue to follow?
My email address is sjwhite@shaw.ca
Thanks again
Sylvia
Thanks Louisa,
I am most grateful for all your input.
Will chase up the gunmaker professsion.
Regards his children, through out the census, one Richard, changed his mind to place of birth on almost all?
Coventry, Exeter Leeds??
Robert jnr 1823 b. Glasgow Lanark Scotland, Jane 1827 Cork Ireland.
So you can see how father moved around.
1841 census shows a wife for Robert snr as Eleanor but that's all I have to work on.
He is a widow by 1851.
This tree as you can tell is my huge mystery.
I will continue to plod & thanks so much again
Sylvia
I am most grateful for all your input.
Will chase up the gunmaker professsion.
Regards his children, through out the census, one Richard, changed his mind to place of birth on almost all?
Coventry, Exeter Leeds??
Robert jnr 1823 b. Glasgow Lanark Scotland, Jane 1827 Cork Ireland.
So you can see how father moved around.
1841 census shows a wife for Robert snr as Eleanor but that's all I have to work on.
He is a widow by 1851.
This tree as you can tell is my huge mystery.
I will continue to plod & thanks so much again
Sylvia
paul stacey
master brummie
The 40th of foot was the 2nd Somerset Regiment. Odd regiment for Birmingham as the Warwickshires and South Staffs were local, and the Coldstream Guards recruited here too.
paul
paul
Paul.
Yes the 40th was an odd regiment I agree but it´s correct because I have his discharge records from Kew, his medal records from the regiment and his marriage certificate & his 1st child´s baptism certificate both signed by the regimental chaplain in France in 1816/17. In 1851 he was a Chelsea pensioner, 40th regiment of Foot.
Yes the 40th was an odd regiment I agree but it´s correct because I have his discharge records from Kew, his medal records from the regiment and his marriage certificate & his 1st child´s baptism certificate both signed by the regimental chaplain in France in 1816/17. In 1851 he was a Chelsea pensioner, 40th regiment of Foot.
paul stacey
master brummie
How wonderful senoraruz to have such detailed records about your ancestor, he probably fought in the Peninsular campaign, and Waterloo. The reason for his being in such a regiment was due to the fact that there were no official barracks outside London at this date and regiments went where there were plenty of lodgings avaiable and where there were plenty of possible recruits to be had.
regards
paul
regards
paul
It´s a result of the combined efforts of several of his descendants over 15-20 years.
Thanks for the info about recruitment.
All we need now is to find a birth or baptism for him & we can get back a bit further, but John Davis even with the middle name Sanders is almost impossible.
We think we know who his parents were, but without hard evidence, don´t want to just assume.
No one can find out where the Sanders comes from, even the youngest of the descendants who also has Sanders as a middle name, only knows it has come down the family for generations. The bonus is that his parents have part of a family bible & John Sanders´s Waterloo medal with 10 bars so we now have photocopies of them.
I just hope that Sylvie gets the info she needs,
Thanks for the info about recruitment.
All we need now is to find a birth or baptism for him & we can get back a bit further, but John Davis even with the middle name Sanders is almost impossible.
We think we know who his parents were, but without hard evidence, don´t want to just assume.
No one can find out where the Sanders comes from, even the youngest of the descendants who also has Sanders as a middle name, only knows it has come down the family for generations. The bonus is that his parents have part of a family bible & John Sanders´s Waterloo medal with 10 bars so we now have photocopies of them.
I just hope that Sylvie gets the info she needs,
Hi Sylvia.
just had a look at the 1851 for Robert. His place of birth looks like Brigham, which is in Cumberland, or at a pinch, it could be Brixham, which is not far fom Exeter. certainly doesn´t look like Birmingham.
Had you noticed on the 1851 Stepoole Hill, Exeter.
Jane Woodhouse aged 21 b Cork, needlewoman with her 1 month old baby also called Jane.
Marion
just had a look at the 1851 for Robert. His place of birth looks like Brigham, which is in Cumberland, or at a pinch, it could be Brixham, which is not far fom Exeter. certainly doesn´t look like Birmingham.
Had you noticed on the 1851 Stepoole Hill, Exeter.
Jane Woodhouse aged 21 b Cork, needlewoman with her 1 month old baby also called Jane.
Marion
have a gt.gt.uncle - Alfred Sutton b. 1840 who was a trained gun smith, I presume. He joined the army in Corps of Armourers in 1861, married a girl in London. He was posted to Canada on the 23rd April 1863 - he was there for some years as at least 5 children were born there - later he was posted to Ireland where several more children were born and back to Aldershot and Chatham - he served for 21 yrs and retired with a pension back to Birmingham. I was wondering if anyone could tell me which regiment he served with.
I did go to Kew with my 12 yr old grandson on a Monday and found that they are closed on that day - took 2 hours either way and Joe says he's never going again!!
Sheri
I did go to Kew with my 12 yr old grandson on a Monday and found that they are closed on that day - took 2 hours either way and Joe says he's never going again!!
Sheri
paul stacey
master brummie
I would imagine sheri that he would have been with the "Royal Army Ordinance Corps" or possibly with the "Royal Engineers" who also had there own armourers, Chatham has always been a Royal engineer's posting. If you know his service Number you should be able to get his military records from kew.
regards
paul
regards
paul
Sheri,
This is probably too late for you ….. and you’ve probably found Alfred’s records on FMP by now.
Nevertheless, a couple of points:
His “regiment” was the Corps of Armourer Sergeants ….. whose Depot was the Royal Small Arms (Repairing) Factory, Millbank.
Once qualified, Armourer Sergeants were posted ….. more correctly: attached … to Infantry (and Cavalry) Regiments. They wore the uniform of the Regiments. With the exception of the Armourer trade badge of the Hammer and Pincers / Tongs worn above the chevrons on the right arm, they were indistinguishable from members of the Regiment proper.
Alfred was attached to three Regiments:
1863 – 1870 Royal Canadian Rifles
1872 – 1878 5th Regiment of Foot, 2nd Battalion
1879 – 1880 38th Regiment of Foot
At all other times, he was posted back to the Millbank Depot.
Incidentally, a Samuel Sutton, Gunsmith, b. 1836 (Parish of St. Pauls … near Birmingham … County of Warwick) also enlisted in the Corps of Armourers in 1861.
Regards,
This is probably too late for you ….. and you’ve probably found Alfred’s records on FMP by now.
Nevertheless, a couple of points:
His “regiment” was the Corps of Armourer Sergeants ….. whose Depot was the Royal Small Arms (Repairing) Factory, Millbank.
Once qualified, Armourer Sergeants were posted ….. more correctly: attached … to Infantry (and Cavalry) Regiments. They wore the uniform of the Regiments. With the exception of the Armourer trade badge of the Hammer and Pincers / Tongs worn above the chevrons on the right arm, they were indistinguishable from members of the Regiment proper.
Alfred was attached to three Regiments:
1863 – 1870 Royal Canadian Rifles
1872 – 1878 5th Regiment of Foot, 2nd Battalion
1879 – 1880 38th Regiment of Foot
At all other times, he was posted back to the Millbank Depot.
Incidentally, a Samuel Sutton, Gunsmith, b. 1836 (Parish of St. Pauls … near Birmingham … County of Warwick) also enlisted in the Corps of Armourers in 1861.
Regards,
