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Upper Dean Street, Birmingham

jennyann

jennyann

Gone but not forgotten. R.I.P.
I was wondering if the building in this photo is still standing on Upper Dean Street? It was there four years ago, which amazed me because the area has been totally developed. I worked in this building for a year or so in 1959 for Mr. Sketchly, who was the Manager and it was, as you can just make out, the offices and warehouse for Francis Nicholl's (Wholesale Grocers). I am not sure why this building wasn't mowed down years ago.

It was a nice building when I worked there with a small showroom at the front which was stacked with innovative tinned goods displays. The warehouse wasn't huge but went back quite a distance on two floors.
I wonder what business was in there before Francis Nicholl's.

The door on the left was always locked and never used except for one day the cleaner left it open and a man came in and up the stairs whilst I was in my office alone. The right hand window, first floor. He came in and asked me for money. When I said no he picked up my typewriter and threw it on the ground and then tried to smack me. I screamed and he ran out. The police were called and they drove me around the markets, etc. to see if I could spot him. Didn't find him. I started to look for another job after that
as I never felt safe.

https://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/Feltip/redsite.jpg
 
The wholesale market is soon to be relocated soon and there are plans to redevelop the whole area which prompted me to wonder about these buildings which are still standing. On this site below it suggests that part of these buildings will be incorporated into plans for the area.I'm amazed that they're still standing they look like they must be Georgian, i'm glad i found your post and can you give me any more information on these buildings?. In addition to this i was wondering if any one else has any info on there original use etc,

thank's

Brumgum.
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=555832
 
Hello Brumgum:
Thanks for posting re Upper Dean Street. I would say that the building I worked in which was the showroom for Francis Nicholl's (Wholesale Grocers) Ltd. is Georgian and it seems is a Heritage Listed building and will be incorporated into the new buildings that are planned. Looks like the final plans keep on changing. It's almost five years since I photographed Upper Dean Street. Hope that the rebuilding will happen soon.

https://csweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/aip/online/B/west midlands/BBIRMING.pdf

The building where I worked was very solid but, of course, very old and had probably been an office/warehouse before Francis Nicholl's moved in.
Further up the street in the same block was another warehouse used by FN. This housed on one floor all the flawed merchandise that was either returned by grocers (mostly tins without labels) or tins that had been dented or ripped open. I went there once to have a look. It had not been emptied for an age and what I saw I have never forgotten.:(:(

There was a pub in Upper Dean Street called the Coach and Horses over a century ago. I would assume that this area was somewhat residential back then. Prior to that it looks like there were underlying watercourses, of which there were two, which were used to manufacture willow (osier) baskets. Not sure when this was but probably l6th - 17th century.

Named after Thomas Sherlock, Dean of Chichester. The family owned this land. The road was built around 1834. I can't trace any direct connections to Birmingham for him. Here is his Wikipedia info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sherlock
 
Hi Mike: Thanks for posting the photo of the building on Upper Dean Street.
That building I remember. Francis Nicholls' building is just out of the picture on the right. You can just make out the letters FRANC on the photo I took in 2004, which would make it five years ago, the building with the potato company looks dreadful. The windows had all been filled in by a subsequent tenant spoiling the building.
 
you mean this one? I wasn't clear whether this one was preserved or not
mike
 
The building in the last photo has been demolished. I had an aunt who lived in Dean st during the late 40s untill 1963, who i visited often and remember the FN building well. I used to play on the front steps most Sunday mornings. My sister visited the area about 18 months ago and had a chat with a lady who worked in the foam shop. She told her that the buildings were soon to be pulled down. She also gave her a photo and more information, but at the moment i cant recall what it was. MY sister is away untill Thursday. On her return i shall post what ever info she has.
 
hi rob...a couple of years back me and me bro were round upper dean st and there didnt seem much of it left then...look forward to more info from you....


lyn
 
Wow thank's for all this info, i'm trying to spread the word and get them saved!. The buildings in the picture in my original post are all still standing.
 
Thanks for the info and photos Mike, Astoness and Robert. The demolished building where Francis Nicholls were located was for their main division, Francis Nicholl's Fruit and Vegetables. Where I worked was a very small subsidiary to FN and they sold groceries mainly to small businesses in and around Birmingham. As Brumgum says those buildings on Upper Dean Street are still standing.It was hoped that the Georgian place, which I believe was FN, would be incorporated into the new plans which have been changed a couple of times so far.
Here is a timeline for the main Francis Nicholls company which was bought out by the Geest company in 1964 and then reformed, etc.
https://www.redbridge-holdings.com/redbridge-group/history.html
I know over the years several people on this site either worked for the main FN company or had relatives and friends who did.
 
Right on Mike...that's the one. The showroom was were the two windows and door were. I can remember at times tin displays being piled up, the wood floor wetted down and photos being taken for a grocery publication. It didn't always look like that in the showroom. The Georgian pillared entrance was normally locked and not used. It led to a staircase which was quite attractive
and my office was at the top of the stairs. FN rented a small place across the road where they stored dented cans and broken mixer splits, etc. I was able to get my Dad to drive to town a couple of times and load up the car with all sorts of items out of this place for a few shillings.

I expect when Brown's, the company with their sign at the premises, left they took the sign down leaving part of the FN painted sign in place. Mind you, they may not have been the last tenants. Thanks very much for looking out these photos Mike. Much appreciated.
 
Hi Lyn: Thanks for posting the Dean Street photo. It was always a bit confusing with two street names Upper Dean Street and Dean Street.
It's hard to remember the area as it was all those years ago. It was 1959 when I worked at FN. I used to walk through the Bull Ring every work day
and round to Edgbaston Street where I passed Rob Pryke's Fruit and Veg
company and then going into Upper Dean Street to my office. It was close to the Rag Market I remember and I went there a lot just mooching around.
By the time I arrived at work many of the fruit and veg merchants in the area were packing up after starting work at 3:00am to serve the greengrocers mainly. I remember people being very friendly.

I also got to see the Bull Ring with all the vendor's carts lining the hill and hear them calling out to their customers. It was always very interesting. A lot of the market men used to go to a kiosk in the Bull Ring to buy their lunches. I remember the Meat Pies. The men had different names for them but they weren`t bad at all as I remember.

I went to work for FN after I had worked for a year or so for John Wilson & Sons (Wholesale Grocers) Ltd, who were in New John Street West.
I have never seen any photos of their building. That was an old fashioned company which disappeared in the l960`s.
 
I noticed the other day that work has started on this site and the lower buildings have boarding around them, does anyone know how much of this site is going to remain?.
 
Hi BrumGum: As far as I know only 42-45 Upper Dean Street will be preserved and taken back to it's original state.It looks from the Birmingham Gov Planning site that the final plans were passed in April. The Skyscaper City site showed some plans which I believe were not the ones passed. I know you posted that site in a previous post. https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=555832

Here's an update from last week on Skyscraper City site........
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=43096886

Not much information available through Birmingham Gov Planning though.I shall be in Birmingham for approx four weeks starting on October 8 so I willbe able to have a look.
 
jennyann said:
Hi BrumGum: As far as I know only 42-45 Upper Dean Street will be preserved and taken back to it's original state.It looks from the Birmingham Gov Planning site that the final plans were passed in April. The Skyscaper City site showed some plans which I believe were not the ones passed. I know you posted that site in a previous post. https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=555832

Here's an update from last week on Skyscraper City site........
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=43096886

Not much information available through Birmingham Gov Planning though.I shall be in Birmingham for approx four weeks starting on October 8 so I willbe able to have a look.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this, i think it's kind of sad they're not saving all of it as it survived this long!.
 
I worked in the very same building in or around 1970. It was a wholesale veg warehouse then which was under the heading of Graham Boughey. Thanks for the memories which came zipping back!
 
Hi Stillabrummie: I was in Upper Dean Street a few weeks ago and took some more photos. Nothing has been started yet it seems on the new project. The building is in rough shape and one of the columns at the left hand side is now halved! Amazing that you worked in that building. That would have been a few years after I worked there.
 
Not exactly the Bull Ring, but as near as damn is to swearing, i noticed that the buildings on the corner of Upper Dean St and Pershore St had been demolished, this was 3 weeks ago when i was walking to the car-boot on the wholesale fruit and veg market.
Looking through the boarding that had been erected i could see deep evacuations (i think that's the word) with fantastic old footings etc, not sure if archaeologists are working on site ? Max
 
One of my g-great uncles, Albert Hinks, used to run the Coach and Horses pub in Upper Dean Street in 1911. According to the 1911 summary, in addition to the pub there were shops, factories, warehouses and private dwellings along that street.
 
Albert Hinks is listed in the 1908-1913 editions of Kellys at the Coach & Horses , so he was there for at least 5 years (not there in 1905 or 1915 editions)
 
Thank you for the additional info, mikegee, it helps to paint a picture in my mind of how the family lived. He had a young family to bring up by himself after his wife, Ellen, died some time between 1901 and 1911 going on census entries where it said he was a widower in the 1911 census. Trying to find out more because I cannot find reliable marriage or death records for either of them! She was from Macclesfield, Lancashire, that's all I know.
 
I worked at 45 Upper Dean Street for 18 months in 1959 at Francis Nicholls (Wholesale Grocers) Ltd. This building amazingly is a heritage building and is still standing in an awful state.
It shows up in one of your Flickr photos horsencart. It was a great area to be working in back in the day.
 
Last edited:
October 2010 - when the Travelodge was being built next door




To date behind this building is still a temporary car park on the Pershore Street corner (not sure when it will get built on)


Bus view of St Martin's in the Bullring from Upper Dean Street - November 2014 - on the top deck of the no 35.




There's this mural near Upper Dean Street next to the outdoor markets - as seen in January 2011

 
HORSENCART
Your dates on flickre seem a bit off. It gives the phot as having been taken in 2013
 
I should say something about not believing all that you read that was the year (2013) I uploaded the photo I took the shot from the old Bull Ring Shopping Center and if my memory is correct it was a few months before they closed the place (whatever year that was? )



mikejee said:
HORSENCART
Your dates on flickre seem a bit off. It gives the phot as having been taken in 2013
Click to expand...
 
Horsencart you do know that you can edit the date of the photo! And if you don't know the exact date set it to something like "Circa 2000" (best done in the Organiser)
 
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