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Smithfield Fruit & Veg W/sale Market 1883

viv and mike i think i have seen this photo before and the name of the pub criterion seems familar..
 
Lyn
The watermark deleted the name. see below, though it did later change it's name to the Brook Vaults. It may have only been called the Criterion for a short time

map c 1889 showing fruit & veg market mod.jpg
 
morning mike...reason i thought it may not be the criterion is because on dennis.s map he has marked it out on a corner but on your map and in vivs photo it does not look like a corner to me..im confused again lol
 
Hi mIKE
I am incline to go with you on that answer being toilets, and i was studying late last night or should i say in in this morning
At 1 am sure to me its the toilets block for the workers , and that the conclusion of reading the inscription myself
thanks again for your mapping services ,what would we do with out you
You are a truly a star and a gentleman in the making
Enjoy the rest of your day in what ever you are doing
best wishes Alan,, Astonian,,,,
 
Just to confirm, there was definitely a Criterion in Spiceal Street and one in Jamaica Row in 1908 according to pubhistory.com site. Viv.

image.jpeg
 
Viv, I always scan down the 'Forums' column to see what's of interest and look for unusual names - I saw 'Smithfield Market - Old Wholes'. I thought 'that's a name I don't recognise, never seen that before, it looks interesting'. Then it dawned on me that the title was actually too long for the column. Oh dear, time to retire I think....
 
A good point Lady P. The title of this and the meat market thread is too long. Shall try and work out dates for them. There are so many markets, so to distinguish one from the other I think some dates would help. (And that's not a pun on fruit and veg folks !!). Shall give it some thought.

Or if anyone can suggest a useful way of distinguishing them please say. Thanks. Viv.

Update. The various markets threads have been organised according to the details of each market see more here https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/for...-to-birmingham-wholesale-retail-markets.3073/
 
Hi VIV
I looks like you have beaten me to it on the verifying of our friend whom stated that there was a criterion pub
He was actualy correctwhen he said there was the pub in jamica row for that period name criterion public house
and i have it at first hand from a record which i crossed checked last night ,but it was the early hours of the morning
So i left it until now
the address was number 51 jamica row then it changed its name to the Brook,s Vaults
The said manager was in 1924 F . Holiday . and in 1944 was in deed mr F Brown
So the criterion was there but change of name to the Brooks Vaults
and listed as brookes vaults formerly the criterion,
It also states that there was over 25 venues of concert halls and sing song and varuios shows within the area
And you can imagine the majority of these are no longer there
There was also at the same time period was another public house in jamica row
At number 81 jamica row thats thirty doors away to my account
It was called the Plough and Harrow run by S R Fisher 1924 in 1944 was F W Doran
Around in Spical street was in fact the Spread Eagle public house at number 14.
Ran by Samuel Rich in 1924 . then it closed down,
Have a great everybody best wishes Alan,,, Astonian,,,,
 
Hi VIV
Here is a little more info , a survey of the area was made in 1750, by Samuel Bradford, of the houses and inhabitants
In the area,
Area, Houses, Inhabitants
Edgbaston Street 151 879
MOOR STREET 195 1096
Moat lane 43 252
Park Street 156 944
Spiceal Street 41 249
Bell Street 39 179
Phillip street 38 213
Corn Cheaping 29 162
Digbeth 303 1646
995. 5600

In later years all these houses was demolished and the inhabitants moved to other areas of the city, Business premises were then errected
 
image.jpeg image.jpeg Phyllis Nicklin managed to capture Smithfield Fruit & Veg market just before it disappeared. Her first photo above was taken in early 1968, the second photo was taken in late 1968. This would have been just at the point of the Bull Ring markets major redevelopment. The first image is looking towards Smithfield - the Drovers Arms and Moat Lane to the right, Moat Row to the left. (The wholesale City Meat Market would have been behind her on Bradford Street).

I especially like that Phyllis captured the writing on the ornate Smithfield facade in the second image announcing this was the 1903 extension. Viv.
 
Hi guys
What i am tryimg to find out is where was the place or to try and find out what type of premises it was
during the early years i think it was in the thirtys i beleive
and it was in jamica row , and it was called the Banana ovens which was run by a family member
of my mother, and her emediate family side
I beleive there was an article many years ago when carl chinn started to do his weekly bits of magerzine
there was a named story about it
Is it posible whom may have a electro roll or business records to see what was it about
could have been a coffee house or as it sounds like a marjket idea making banana,s go yellow and ripe with some kind of oven
Many thanks Astonian,, Alan,,,
 
Hi Viv and mike
many thanks for your contact to you both , i never seen your original reply other wise i would not have made a a request
so once again guys a million thanks for your time and assistance
best wishes as always Alan,, Astonian,,,,
 
The buildings may have gone but these Smithfield Market tokens for sale on eBay are a nice reminder of the market's history. Can someone explain exactly how these would have been used in the markets please? Viv.

image.jpeg
 
This is a familiar image which has been on the forum before. It's looking along Moat Lane towards the Drovers Arms (behind the tram). The image is titled Old Smithfield Market, so I presume this was the old outdoor Smithfield market until the new (1883 covered) Smithfield Market was built. Did the open land in the image get taken up with the building of the later covered Smithfield Martket? I can't quite match it up with later maps. Viv.

image.jpeg
 
Yes it did Viv. tge pub with Mitchells on top can be seen to be the Drovers Arms (in red on map), and the pub just in front , with their stables to the right, is the Birmingham Arms, (blue on map)

map c1889 showing open air Market.jpg
 
Demolition of Smithfield Market in progress. (Image from the 'old street pics' thread originally posted by Astoness). Viv.
 

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makets deliveries. 1938.png
I know this picture has been posted some time ago but this is a clearer image. It is labelled Market delivery day, 1938.
 
The tram being on route 83 (Station Street to Fox Hollies Road, Hall Green) was a short working of thee 18 route which went right to the city boundary with Shirley. As the picture is dated 1932 the route was not long open, it commenced in April 1928 closing in early 1937 being replaced by the 46 bus. The nearest lorry, right hand side just seems to have Birmingham painted on its rear bracing, the other seems to suggest G. Westwood? There was a Westwood greengrocer and fruiterer south of the Camp Hill railway bridge on Stratford Road. Wherever it was seems to have gone as all that side of Stratford Road (right leaving the city centre) has been/or is being rebuilt.
The car, following the tram, seems to have been registered in Nottingham (TO).
 
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