Red House Park

[sylviasayers]

On the way to Walsall yesterday I remarked to Ray that it was years since I had been into Red House Park, he had never heard of it!!! so we turned off and I was taken back many years, we used to get off the bus the stop after the Scott Arms, the midland red, I think, and walk down the lane past the RC church, and on the left there were some lovely big houses, some with balconies, and one with a large stained glass window on the second floor, I used to think when I grow up I want to live there.

Into the park the Red House itself is in a sad state, graffiti scrawled all over it, we spoke to a lady who said Friends of the Red House, are trying to save it. The park was much smaller than I remembered but the obelisk to Princess Charlotte was still on the top of the ridge, we would roll over and over down the hill from there as young kids, the pool with the tiny island was still there, plus a larger overflow one, and the "caves" were still where I remembered, we used to have to climb over railings to get there, they seemed quite tiny now but we had such fun there.

New homes have been built all round the perimeter over the last 40 years or so, and all the farm land gone, we used to go and climb on the haystacks on those long hot sunny days of long ago. Glad I went though.

 

[Wendy]

Oh Sylviasayers I remember Red House Park I used to go there with my cousin when we visited our Gran, she lived on Queslett Road. I think that was the place I first went on a big slide..........I was scared stiff but didn't want to show it as I was with my cousin and he's a boy!! We are still close, I will have to remind him about our trips to "The Redhouse". As you say happy memories.

 

[jennyann]

Sylvia and MomaP..I had never heard of Red House Park before so it's good to learn something new and to know it was meaningful to you both growing up. It looks like another great place to visit.
Here is the website for Red House Park and there is a lot to it. I hope they manage to save the House. It would be so sad to see it demolished.

https://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/redhousepark/

 

[Wendy]

Hi Jennyann, Thanks for the link. I had forgotten about the beautiful house! Well I suppose kids don't look at buildings.

 

[B43]

Change of Red House Park web site address

The Red House Park web site has moved to a new server.
best address to use is https://www.redhousepark.org.uk

 

[B43]

Obelisk in Red House Park

The obelisk in Red House Park is believed to be in memory of Princess Charlotte. Originally it had a plaque with an inscription, possibly in latin. The plaque was lost/damaged in the 20's. The Friends of Red House Park would like to recreate the plaque but need to know what it said!

Has anyone got any documentation that quotes the wording?

 

[Alf]

Welcome B43 thanks for the Info Red House Park

Like your Web Site.

enjoy

 

[gingerjon]

medal

would there be a connection with the words on this medal insciption. Among the many public mementoes of the Princess's death was this medal. On the front, the Princess is shown in profile surrounded by the words "H.R.H. THE PRINCESS CHARLOTTE" and on the back, the traditional weeping willow and funerary urn are surrounded by the words "BRITANNIA MOURNS HER PRINCESS DEAD." Below the urn: "DIED NOV. 6, 1817 AGED 21."

 

[B43]

memories of Princess Charlotte

It seems at the time of Princess Charlottes death there were many examples of public grief and momentoes. There is another obelisk in Bristol put up in her memory and it seems many individuals were drawn to commemorate her in the years after her death in 1817. It does raise the question of when the obelisk was built in Red House. If it was built in 1841 when the Red House was built was this too long after her death? Or did Robert Scott want an impressive monument to go with his estate and the subject was appropriate. It may be that it pre-dates the current house, certainly in 1834 the Red House was described as a 'neat Gothic seat' so was the estate already present before what we know now?

Often memorials to princess Charlotte include her details but also include the benefactor of the monument. It has been stated the details were in Latin so hopefully someone will come up with an old record.

 

[O.C.]

Nice map from the 1800's of were the Red House was

 

[B43]

Multiple Red House's

Nice map, The Red House indicated is further north on the Walsall-Aldridge road, not one I have come across before. The Great Barr Red House would be one map section lower. At the bottom of the map is the Gough's Arms which was the Beacon Inn by 1890 (a Harvester restuarant now).
The area was known as Snails Green and linked to the current Newton Road (originally called West Bromwich Road possible) with the Red House there.

 

[Anne Jessel]

Redhouse Park

I was really pleased to find this thread. Redhouse Park bring many child/young girl memories. I remember the Redhouse, and always, after a long trek with my sister from Old Church West Bromwich, down Newton Road, and onto Great Barr we trundled into the park, dying of thirst on hot summer days and it was to the Red House we hurriedly made a bee-line for, for a long cooling drink in the cafe area. We had a play on the swings and down the slides then visited my sister who lived at that time in Appleton Avenue. I had many friends in Jayshaw Avenue also.
I stayed with my sister here very often and Redhouse Park was frequented nearly every day by my friends and I. I also used to wheel my two year old nephew there in his push chair. I was just 12 years older than him!
This present day my uncle lives in one of the newer roads encircling the park.
I can't believe the old house is threatened, and I hope that it will be preserved. If the house goes, will the park too I wonder?

 

[Wendy]

Ann you have sparked a memory my gran moved to Waddington Avenue in the 60's and when we visited I would go down a gully across Jayshaw Avenue to visit my cousin who lived in Gorse Farm Road. He had a cousin older than us and she would take us to Red House Park............oh happy days!

 

[Maryd]

This time of year always reminds me of Red House Park. I used to kick up all the fallen Autumn leaves as I walked, and there was a hill that I loved to roll down and make myself feel sick!

 

[Carol Rushton]

I feel very sad and angry to think that lady Scott gave the poeple, her land.. Especially, Red House Park, House and that of St Margrets Hospital. Not for those in monetary power to use it to profit from! Shame on them! She'll be turning in her grave, if could see the mess of her once beautiful land!

 

[Phil]

Though I have never placed a foot inside Red House Park, I noted that there are no images of the park or the house on display. I thought that other posters like myself would like to see what is being discussed. Here are photos of the front and rear of Red House one of the interior and one of the parks children's play area.

 

[Dennis Williams]

Red House Park is a public park in Great Barr, Sandwell, England.
Within the park is The Red House, a country housebuilt in the 1841 for the then Liberal MPfor Walsall, Robert Wellbeloved Scott, and stood in his 27-acre estate. Since 17 June 1996 it has been a Grade II listed building. It uses red bricks in Flemish Bond with stone dressings. It has a hipped roof with Welsh slates and brick chimneys. Previously used as a convalescent home, the house was subsequently owned by Sandwell Metropolitan Borough Council and leased to the British Trust for Conservation Volunteers. In 2015, it was sold to a developer for conversion into apartments.

Obelisk
The park includes an obelisk, in memory of Princess Charlotte, which was restored in August 2009.
The Park is also home to two small tunnel like structures known locally, and referred to on maps as, Hermit's Cave.

Red House Obelisk
The obelisk first attracts the curiosity of the visitor to Red House Park, and it is in this respect that many strange stories are passed on to the effect that, the memorial was erected to the memory of a horse. It is quite possible this story gained some amount of credence as a result of the Red House being often, and wrongly, associated with Great Barr Hall, where there are a number of memorials to family pets. The name of Scott has been associated with both these estates, and this has often led to the misunderstanding that the families were related.

The Monument is shown on the 1890 map as being "in memory of Princess Charlotte". Princess Charlotte, the only child of the Prince Regent and presumed heir to the British throne died in childbirth in November 1817.

The whole course of British History might have been very different, for she would have Queen of England. Instead her passing meant Victoria going to the throne. The Princess was a universal favourite, and in 1816 the bright and charming girl married Leopold of Saxe Coburg. She died the following year, and the whole nation was grief stricken. Her name was inscribed on many great monuments, the chief among them being a unique window in St. George's Chapel inspired two of the noblest pieces of funeral eloquence in the English tongue namely, the funeral sermons of Chalmers and Robert Hall.
The monument at Red House originally had a tablet affixed with a long Latin inscription, but during a period in which the house was used as a sanatorium for Birmingham children the tablet became damaged and no longer there.

In 2009 the Obelisk was restored

 

[Carol Rushton]

Yes had Charlotte had survived our history would have been a very different story all together.. Lady Scott gave a lot of her land to her people of Great Barr In those days Great Barr was the local areas of Scott's Area. Not the extended area our councils added over the years. Quite sad how this changed from a small hamlet to what is known today.

 

[Pedrocut]

Yes had Charlotte had survived our history would have been a very different story all together.. Lady Scott gave a lot of her land to her people of Great Barr In those days Great Barr was the local areas of Scott's Area. Not the extended area our councils added over the years. Quite sad how this changed from a small hamlet to what is known today.

The history of England could well have been different, but would it have been better?

Just who was Lady Scott?

The house was rebuilt in 1841.

 

[Pedrocut]

FIND THE LADY

I think the Lady Scott mentioned above must be LADY Mildred Anne Bateman and Scott, of Great Barr Hall who died in 1909. This lady did not have anything to do with Red House, although both the Hall and the House were associated with the "Scott family."

The lady is however an interesting person, and doesn't seem to have been mentioned on the Forum. Probably the best peace for a description is under the Thread Great Barr Hall. She has probably turned over a few times in her grave already!

 

[LOZELLIAN]

FIND THE LADY

I think the Lady Scott mentioned above must be LADY Mildred Anne Bateman and Scott, of Great Barr Hall who died in 1909. This lady did not have anything to do with Red House, although both the Hall and the House were associated with the "Scott family."

The lady is however an interesting person, and doesn't seem to have been mentioned on the Forum. Probably the best peace for a description is under the Thread Great Barr Hall. She has probably turned over a few times in her grave already!

Hi Pedrocut,

A little off the subject but, I along with many others I suspect, have very fond memories of long summer days & going fishing to Red House Park with My Dad & Uncle in the mid - late 1960's.

Lozellian

 

[Pedrocut]

Hi Pedrocut,

A little off the subject but, I along with many others I suspect, have very fond memories of long summer days & going fishing to Red House Park with My Dad & Uncle in the mid - late 1960's.

Lozellian

I used to fish in the canal and Brookvale Park, and sometimes a ride over to Sutton Park. I went once to Red House but don’t remember what it was like. Did you catch anything?

 

[Pedrocut]

Red House, Great Barr an alternative view.

I think a few details need to be set out concerning the Red House Estate to avoid the confusion with the Great Barr Hall Estate.

In 1830 the King kindly allowed Robert Wellbeloved, a barrister of the Middle Temple, and his wife Sarah Scott, only child of Joseph Scott (died 1832) of Stourbridge and the Red House, Great Barr, to take and use the surname of Scott only. Wellbeloved could now bear the arms of Scott.

In 1841 Wellbeloved, being well-off, rebuilt Red House, and in 1845 purchased the manor and estates at Rattlinghope. He also had a residence in Regent's Park. Wellbeloved died in 1852 and the estate passed to his son John Charles Addyes Scott.

John C died in 1888 in Naples and the Estates passed to his wife Mahlah Scott and his son James Robert Scott. He had mainly lived in London, Norbury or Rattlinghope. It seems that Red House was of secondary consideration to the Scott family. Between 1870-1880 it appears the address given by John Marshal, and in 1882 there is an advert for the property to be LET.

Mahlah Scott died in 1907. Her son John Robert Scott died in 1912 and Great Barr was still one of his addresses. The Red House had been used a children's convalescence home since about 1906, and was at least financed in part by the Birmingham Saturday Hospital fund.

In 1920 West Brom Council was sanctioned by the MOH to borrow £4,400 to purchase the Estate, and Red House Park was opened in 1929. I can't find any benevolence on the part of the Scott family in connection with the Red House Estate.

 

[Pedrocut]

I don’t think Lady Scott had any land to give. She was a Lady and a Bateman and Scott by virtue of her marriage to Sir Francis Edward Scott. When she died in 1909 the Hall and some of the Estate were later sold in 1911 by the Trustees of Sir Arthur Douglas Scott who had died in 1884. As has been mentioned Barr Beacon also belonged to him and was sold in 1918.

The Estate was purchased in October 1911 by the West Bromwich Board of Guardians for 28,000 quid.

 

[Carol Rushton]

The history of England could well have been different, but would it have been better?

Just who was Lady Scott?

The house was rebuilt in 1841.

She was the wife of who ever owned the land around the Scott's area..My dad was born in Villa type house by the motorway was born in the 1925 No 92 Birmingham Rd he luv history and study as much about Great Barr and Lady Scott.When she left certain areas of great Barr to the people of Great Barr! Hence the Scott's Arms...There was a small area that was classed has Geat Barr its council's that moved the boundaries..Thank yu Suex

 

[LOZELLIAN]

I used to fish in the canal and Brookvale Park, and sometimes a ride over to Sutton Park. I went once to Red House but don’t remember what it was like. Did you catch anything?

Hi Pedrocut,

Yes mate, we used to catch the usual roach, perch, tench, gudgeon & the odd skimmer now & then (nothing of any great size) and were always told that the lake (like Salford Park) held both big Carp & Pike but, I never saw anyone catch either. It was a nice location all those years ago & something to look forward to on a Saturday. We also used to to fish Pype Hayes Park as a relative of my uncle's had a house whose garden backed onto the park so we got in to fish before the gates were open (bonus) & the fishing was good there.

Lozellian