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Midland Red or Mackie and Gladstones

T

teh

Guest
hi

Does anyone remember anything abour Mackie and Gladstones - my father worked there in the early sixties i think. Also he drove a midland red bus for a number of years and used the midland red club in sutton coldfield during the 70's and 80's - the manager at the time was Ralph.

I am putting a memories book together for my dad's 70th in june and any info (especially from Ralph) would be fantastic.
 
My brother Allen Gibson, (Gibbo2005 on this forum), worked for Midland Red at Sutton for years as a driver and a mechanic but he emigrated to OZ in 1970 so might just be outside your dad's time Teh.
He's still in touch with the workshop foreman who retired to the Welsh coast. E.
 
Eric Gibson, thanks for your reply. If possible could you ask your brother if he knew my dad - any info would be great. I may take a visit to the midland red club and see if they have any old photos or memrabillia.
 
Alf, I worked on The Midland Red at Digbeth in the 70s. I didnt do long because it wasnt for me if you know what I mean. Alf I assume you like a giggle so listen to this. I was doing the X96 I think it was, to Shrewsbury. I had done one trip to learn the route and I was not sure of the way so when I had been on the road for awhile I asked a woman which way we should go. She directed me around several corners and stood up to get off. When she had gone I asked someone else the way and they told me that I was not even on the bus route. This woman always sat near the driver because the staff turnover was a bit erratic and she did this trick often to save herself a walk. Anyway this second woman got me back on the right road but when I got to Shrewsbury I had almost an hour break. I was in the canteen and I was called over the tanoid. I went to the office and an inspector said I had gone off-route and left him at a stop. Ha Ha
 
Shrewsbury canteen, the big wooden shed in the bus station! I remember it, always full of staff and the food and tea excellent! It was run by the garage's social club as I recall, not the company.

In my early days at Digbeth, as spare driver one day I and a conductress had to do a turn on the Acocks Green to Chelmsley Wood route, which was normally one man operated - but I hadn't been trained for that yet.
"Don't worry!" she said, "I know the way to Marston Green, we'll ask the passengers from there!"
We did three trips, after Marston Green went three different ways to three different places, and each time as the last passenger got off they said 'It turns round here and goes back'!
We arrived back at Marston Green nearly 20 minutes early, the conductress showed me a back street to hide the bus in and we sat in a cafe near the station until it was time to go back.
Being new and a bit scared of repercussions, when we got back I told someone in the traffic office.
"Never mind", he said, "at least the trips were covered, all head office worry about is that we don't lose the mileage!"
 
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Lloyd, anyone who was listening would not believe it would they. When were you at Digbeth?
 
At Digbeth 1973(part time) 1974(full time) until Midland Red pulled out and the coach unit (as it had become) went to Carlyle Road Works, then with denationalisation back to the Bull Ring Bus Station under Midland Red West until they closed it. I then transferred to Redditch until 2002. I was 'Senior Driver' (longest serving) of the Birmingham unit by the early 90s and Trade Union secretary for 5 years at the bus station.
 
Lloyd, our time at Digbeth must have overlapped; When it all changed I went to Mosely Rd and when that closed I moved up to selly Oak. I did a few years there and then became a Hackney Carriage owner driver in Birmingham until I retired.
 
Stitcher, did you ever do a Bank Holiday dupe on the X96? Normally it was Brum to Northampton or Brum to Shrewsbury. Bank Holidays dupes were booked up for the round journey. What a marathon that was Brum - Northampton - Shrewsbury - Brum. You would need a tacho to do it now but it paid well!
 
Mototman-mike. I dont think I ever did that one but I did them both as single runs. Do you know what annoys me? bus drivers these days wearing casual clothes and using the mobile phone whilst driving. The standard of driving really is something else. People keep telling me that change happens and I should just accept these things. I have to reply that this sort of attitude is wrong. In the vast majority of instances, change is bought about by some overpaid goon. Changes that are generated by someone are supposedly to be for the better and should be monitored to ensure that good standards are maintained in all things. Only then can everything improve for all of us.
When I was on the Red, I could go into a shop such as Tandy Electrical and get a store card because the uniform said I was of good character. When I look back I realise that it was a decent job with good mates.
 
Well put Stitcher, and no PSV badges issued now either. In 43 years on the buses from 1962 I couldn't wait to retire during the last ten - it had gone down so much in every aspect.
Mike
 
Motorman-mike, I never really thought of myself as a 'BUSMAN', to me it was a job, although my brother BEN worked at Acocks Green after his de-mob at the end of the war. He worked the 31a-32 Lakey Lane loop for many years. He packed it in when it went one man. He became a Postman at Walford Rd and his round was from Walford/Stratford Rd to Camp Hill. He is still alive and is 88 now. Getting back to me, I thouroughly enjoyed driving and got a P.S.V. just to add to my collection. I ended up with PSV All types. HGV all types, Hazardous chemicles. Mobile Crane ordinary car, M/Cycle Hackney Carriage and I took lessons on catterpillar or tracked vehicles. I have an old mate in S.Wales and he is suffering a bit these days so he cant drive to here any longer. I have a Hyundai Tuscon because it is easy to get in and out of with my arthritis and is a very comfortable driving position. I drive down three or four times a year and I go a different way each time because whichever way go I have done it years ago with a big lorry and I really do still enjoy driving.
 
I have now been been driving buses for 33 year although now it is only part time i have always enjoyed the job. The real change for the worse was at dereg' in 1986. After just about anyone could drive a bus. When i started in 1975 it took three weeks untill you even left the Perry Barr school. You was still in a very respected job and it was almost dead mans shoes to get in. I was lucky to be trained by one of the nicest, friendliest, quietly spoken instructors possible John Lavery. I stayed on the WMPTE for 2 years at Lea Hall on the 14's then 55's and finally the 199/186 roads.
I then moved onto The Red at Tamworth and stayed there for many years. The routes there included the 110,116 Tamworth Birminghm, 765,766 Litchfield Coventry and my favourite route was the X99 Birmingham Nottingham. I also spent 6 months at Wellington helping out during The MAP reorganisations. Around 1990 i spentaround 2 years at Washwood Heath on the 28's before moving to North Wales and Crossville/Arriva.
 
After my time at the Midland Red ended I joined a small private firm in Erdington, North Birmingham Busways. Most of the staff were long in the tooth busmen and took pride in the company - the buses were old but we took care to see they were always excellently maintained and spotlessly clean, and the customers (they are not just 'passengers') respected that, we had a regular clientèle who would let the latest shiny (!) West Midlands bus go past and get on our 24 year old second hand buses. Even if they had West Midlands farecards and had to pay the 60p surcharge to use them.
The directors retired last year and sold the business to a new growing operator - within six weeks 90% of the staff had left. The quality of operation wasn't there in the new colours, just a greed for profit and too many corners cut on maintenance.
Here's me taking no21 out on its last ever run (note the 'Last day of this veteran' card in the front window), it had been new to Blackpool Corporation 24 years earlier, and a later addition to the fleet No26.
Someone once nicknamed the company "Erdington Corporation Transport" because of its old-fashioned ideas of providing a clean, dependable service to the public.
 
Nice pictures Lloyd Whenever i saw these old buses i thought how well turned out they were. Shame about the change.
 
jfc, how you felt about bus driving was how I felt about lorry driving, that said I did get some job satisfaction from bus driving. It was no doubt well regulated and policed by the inspectors, and to be fair, most of the passengers were alright as well. The responsibility of a double decker full of people is not very different to 42 tons of something going along at 50-60 mph. I can not tolerate fools lightly and the trouble for me on the buses was motorists who thought they had a god given right to push in. I like to laugh and one day as I stopped at the old Austin at Longbridge I called out "LONGBRIDGE BOWLING ALLEY". I was asked what I meant by that and I smilingly replied "There are more strikes here than at The Warwick Bowl". I was reported by the Union at the factory and warned about my attitude to other union members. You mentioned the years you did on the buses and I have several friends who only had one job since doing their 2 years national service. I was different, if I got fed up I changed my job. Of course that is not possible these days is it, so I would not be happy working today.
 
Lloyd, Happy days hey.I did jobs I did not like and some I loved but I have fond memories of everything I have done since I left school. I was doint one of the Earlswood runs around lunch time one day. It was the one that went past the Earlswood pub and about a mile past it you reversed into a lane to turn round ready for the return journey. Outside the C0-0P Dairy in Hall green a car was going very slowly and the driver was looking at the shops for something. As I approached the stop an old man was going to step in front of this car so I blew the horn to warn the driver about the danger. I stopped and the old man got on and the motorist followed him. He went berserk so I chinned him. He went off the bus backwards and I drove off. A week later when I thought it was all fogotten I was sent for. The old man had wrote in telling the boss the car driver deserved it. Because the motorist had not complained i got away with a severe reprimand
 
Nice to hear you still enjoy driving Stitcher, I do as well. You said you were at Digbeth in the 70's so must have known King Billy on the union cos he oversaw the move of the Red buses to the PTE at Moseley Road in 1973. I was there then and went to Moseley Road, George Cooper was the elected union chairman up there and I was vice chairman until they closed us down. I remember the night of the move the Digbeth Matador towing dead buses from Adderley Street to Moseley Road. Many had been transferred to Digbeth from other garages a few days before so the Red could unload them on to the PTE! On day one though in true Midland Red (Metro) style we got a full service out. The Flying Dutchman (engineer)saw to that, remember him Ya? King Billy went management and was replaced by Pete Baker which is where Lloyd comes in after that. Musn't keep on or we'll be here all night.

Liked your joke at the Austin. My memory of the Warwick Bowl was the chip butties in their caff on late nights on the Green in Midland Red days when we ran to Sheldon Yardley and Wythall. Digbeth at one time had a bowling team based there as well.
Mike
 
jfc, I forgot to mention that I also had a great guy for my driving tuition. A smallish Irish fella, hes dead now but he was a great guy. I did not go through a shcool as such because I already had HGV experience it was just a matter of doing a snap change with a crash box and one or two other things and then the test.
 
Motorman-mike. I remember B.Goodwin like it was yesterday. How about inspectors Fido and J. Baptist. Do you remember a Hindu Driver,a little man named Malhi? and a clippie named Gladys. Well cop this, on the first Cranmore Boulivard you ran out private and bought a 3 bell load in. When it was time to start the inward run Malhis bus would not start and he had this Gladys trying to push a double decker to start it. I still talk to Malhi these days he has an off licence by me. He always talks about our time on the buses and he is always laughing. He tells me is proud of his bus driving career and says it helped to get his kids through uni and get them settled into good jobs.
 
The 'Flying Dutchman' engineer - Florens Beerholder. Don't know if that's how you spell it, but he was at Sutton in WMPTE days when I knew him. I met him at Wythall about 15 years ago as well, I heard the voice and knew him immediately - ya!
 
I was reminiscing today with a chap who used to be on the 'Red' at Worcester 20 years ago, about the company's driving school at Bearwood.
We remembered as many of the instructors as we could, Billy King, Obi Grainger, Frank Field, Billy Gethin - hundreds of drivers owed their skills to those men, who dutifully taught how to 'double declutch' with a 'crash' gearbox ("Out together - in together" describing the clutch and gearlever action and 'listen to the music' when they were learning engine speeds for gear changes) and coaxed even the most timid driver to pull away on a steep hill without rolling back first (sometimes the man's wrist watch in the gutter behind the rear wheels was the catalyst!).
Here's a group of trainees leaving Bearwood in a 1940 'SON' type bus relegated to training duties.
The Majestic Cinema just visible further down Bearwood Road was my youthful haunt. It had become the Kings Hall Market by this time.
All these years later I still can't believe the garage has gone when I drive down Bearwood Road.
 
Lloyd, I know exactly what you mean about the driving school, and I too still live near Bearwood. On another forum I said people were happier years ago and I got a lot of flak over it. I still believe that society and life quality was happier and nicer than today. Sometimes when I got into the Bull Ring Bus Station I would go inside the market and get a load of shellfish and eat them in the canteen, or I would get our shopping if her indoors was not well. where else could you do that sort of thing during the working day.
 
Stitcher,
I can't place Mr Mahli but must have known him by sight. The Gladys you were on about was probably Gladys Hayes, she was a hefty wench but but not enough to push start a bus. It was the sort of thing we tried though back then. I remember borrowing a hoe off a bloke in his garden to turn the flywheel over on a Fleetline that wouldn't start. Kicking the back panels to start Leyland Nationals was standard practice as well. I passed out as a driver at Bearwood, my insructor throughout training was Denis Morton who claimed to be the youngest driver ever to be made up to driving instructor but didn't impress the old ones that Lloyd mentions above, all of whom were around at that time. I'm surprised Lloyd didn't include the top men, the notorious Mr Hill and second in command Mr Birch with whom mere trainees were certainly never on first name terms. Mr Hill taking trainees for test when displeased would yell "get him out, he'll kill us all" and that was it ,test over for that poor bloke, and that was guaranteed to instill deadly fear among those still to go in the seat!
Mike
 
Meanwhile back at Sutton Garage.
teh,
Here's a couple of 1960's pics inside Sutton Garage for you., not wonderful condition but worth a look. Taken by Driver Dai Morgan, Sutton Garage.
 
Here's a couple of Sutton boys hard at it - Engineers 'Diddy' David Oughton (L) and Malcolm Parry (Rt) working on engines in a corner of the garage. Both lads are still around, and can often be seen at Aston Manor Transport museum open days. (No, they're not exhibits!)
 
motorman-mike, I don't remember much about the driving school because I went out about four times with a nice man named Steve Pender, dead now sad to say, then I had my test. I had already done a few years on heavy goods do you see. Did you ever hear about a Digbeth driver who pushed a car with a bus along Station Street and into the Bull Ring bus station in the seventies?
 
teh

Here is an early Mackie and Gladstone delivery vehicle, don't ask me anything about it, because I have not got a clue. To me it is just a photo I collected because it mentions Birmingham.

Phil

MackieGladstoneDeliveryVehicle.jpg
 
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