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Matilda Mayes

pjmburns said:
I thought it said Robert was 9 months. The birth and death reg were in different years.
However, I still couldn't find a baptism just the burial at St Josephs.
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Yes sorry getting confused. John was 1st July 1865-6th Aug....so four weeks or so. Actually Robert was nearly a year old. Just checked when he was born and when death registered. 14th May 1863-1 May 1864
 

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Also Thomas Mayes must have died before 1901 because Eliza Morton is down as a widow on the 1901 census. John Mayes/maisey was a bricklayer. Same profession as James Snell - John on 1851 census
 
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And just to confuse things further. Just looked up Robert Maisey 1801. The 1841 and 1851 put him as being born in Ireland, Scotland and Leicestershire. I havent traced him in terms of parents
 

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MWS said:
There's a likely death for Thomas reg. Jun 1892 Bham as Mays. Burial Witton.
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Thank you that is helpful. I will try and look that up. It would be good as well if we could trace Eliza, Matilda's sister. May be hard with the spellings and the fact she was in gem street. Not sure what happened to her
 
The problem with tracing Eliza is if she didn't officially marry like Matilda then it would be virtually impossible to find her going forward. It would be the same if you were going forward from Matilda rather than back from her descendants.

I found possible parents for Robert. There are 3 earlier baptisms for Maisey children in Great Yarmouth - James, Isabella and Rebecca - parents James and Elizabeth. On one it lists the mother as Elizabeth Sims. There is a marriage for a James Maisie and an Elizabeth Syme 5 Apr 1799 Canongate.

Canongate and Leith (one of Robert's listed birthplaces) are in Midlothian, part of Edinburgh.
 
I just want to say to everyone who has been helping, I really really do appreciate what you are doing helping with this. This family is so complicated and difficult to trace but I really do owe you a lot for all the looking up of things and helping to join the dots. x
 
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Reactions: MWS
MWS said:
The problem with tracing Eliza is if she didn't officially marry like Matilda then it would be virtually impossible to find her going forward. It would be the same if you were going forward from Matilda rather than back from her descendants.

I found possible parents for Robert. There are 3 earlier baptisms for Maisey children in Great Yarmouth - James, Isabella and Rebecca - parents James and Elizabeth. On one it lists the mother as Elizabeth Sims. There is a marriage for a James Maisie and an Elizabeth Syme 5 Apr 1799 Canongate.

Canongate and Leith (one of Robert's listed birthplaces) are in Midlothian, part of Edinburgh.
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yeah. I am going to look for eliza but I think we may struggle. So do you think that is his parents. The census's have him as ireland, leicester and scotland. But it makes sense what you have found out
 
Vixen said:
yeah. I am going to look for eliza but I think we may struggle. So do you think that is his parents. The census's have him as ireland, leicester and scotland. But it makes sense what you have found out
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There is a record for an Eliza Maisey 1881 working as a servant. The age fits. She was in gem street with matilda in 1871. Could be her but going to look at other records for Mayes etc Theres also an eliza mays - different spelling, servant again in the 1891 census - ignore the 1891 record, thats elizabeth not eliza
 
MWS said:
The problem with tracing Eliza is if she didn't officially marry like Matilda then it would be virtually impossible to find her going forward. It would be the same if you were going forward from Matilda rather than back from her descendants.

I found possible parents for Robert. There are 3 earlier baptisms for Maisey children in Great Yarmouth - James, Isabella and Rebecca - parents James and Elizabeth. On one it lists the mother as Elizabeth Sims. There is a marriage for a James Maisie and an Elizabeth Syme 5 Apr 1799 Canongate.

Canongate and Leith (one of Robert's listed birthplaces) are in Midlothian, part of Edinburgh.
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Okay probably clutching at straws but a John Hardingham, from Norfolk same area as the mayes, married Eliza Mayes 1880. John Hardingham was a fish curer. Same profession as the mayes. However, it would seem this Eliza Mayes was born Norfolk not birmingham
 
Again maybe clutching at straws but there was an Elizabeth Guest as a godparent. An eliza Mays married a george isaac guest in birmingham in 1888 and living next to them in the 1891 census are a family surname long. However I dont think this is Eliza either as it says born staffordshire not warwickshire
 
MWS said:
The problem with tracing Eliza is if she didn't officially marry like Matilda then it would be virtually impossible to find her going forward. It would be the same if you were going forward from Matilda rather than back from her descendants.

I found possible parents for Robert. There are 3 earlier baptisms for Maisey children in Great Yarmouth - James, Isabella and Rebecca - parents James and Elizabeth. On one it lists the mother as Elizabeth Sims. There is a marriage for a James Maisie and an Elizabeth Syme 5 Apr 1799 Canongate.

Canongate and Leith (one of Robert's listed birthplaces) are in Midlothian, part of Edinburgh.
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I found that with Robert Maisey there are also records where his surname is spelt Mayes. I think one of the sons, there were two baptism records, one for Maisey and one under Mayes, both parents robert and margaret. I do wonder what the surname was originally
 
Vixen said:
Okay probably clutching at straws but a John Hardingham, from Norfolk same area as the mayes, married Eliza Mayes 1880. John Hardingham was a fish curer. Same profession as the mayes. However, it would seem this Eliza Mayes was born Norfolk not birmingham
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Didn't James (Thomas’s brother) have a daughter Eliza born in Norfolk?
 
pjmburns said:
Didn't James (Thomas’s brother) have a daughter Eliza born in Norfolk?
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Yes he did, Ann Elizabeth tho I think she went by Elizabeth as when I went to look her birth record up, nothing came up with Jame's wife maiden name..or when I just used the name Elizabeth.but I found her under:
MAIZEY, ANN ELIZABETH BASSINGTHWAIGHTE GRO Reference: 1846 J Quarter in GREAT YARMOUTH Volume 13 Page 592

3 sources
 
MWS said:
The problem with tracing Eliza is if she didn't officially marry like Matilda then it would be virtually impossible to find her going forward. It would be the same if you were going forward from Matilda rather than back from her descendants.

I found possible parents for Robert. There are 3 earlier baptisms for Maisey children in Great Yarmouth - James, Isabella and Rebecca - parents James and Elizabeth. On one it lists the mother as Elizabeth Sims. There is a marriage for a James Maisie and an Elizabeth Syme 5 Apr 1799 Canongate.

Canongate and Leith (one of Robert's listed birthplaces) are in Midlothian, part of Edinburgh.
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I had a look on some trees done by others and came across James and Elizabeth sims with the three children you mentioned. However, as of yet I cant see any link with Robert directly eg a record. No one has Robert on their tree but thats not to say he isn't their son. Just trying to find something to nail him to them
 
Can someone just recheck we have the right robert maisey as there appears to be a mays and mayes in Norfolk. James and Thomas come up under records with dad Robert maisey and Robert Mayes with mother margaret. Are these records just duplicates?

Also on the 1841 census of Robert, there is a Mary Maisey five years younger - wife, sister? 10 years later, Margaret is listed as wife. Also on the 1841 census Robert is down as coming from Ireland but Scotland and Leicester 10 years later

Also I have an 1871 census, with thomas and Eliza tho not sure I have the correct thomas but living right next door is a martha snell. Its the wrong profession for this to be thomas. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discover...4c25951&_phsrc=EMS9815&_phstart=successSource or https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discover...4c25951&_phsrc=EMS9815&_phstart=successSource
 
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Vixen said:
Can someone just recheck we have the right robert maisey as there appears to be a mays and mayes in Norfolk. James and Thomas come up under records with dad Robert maisey and Robert Mayes with mother margaret. Are these records just duplicates?

Also on the 1841 census of Robert, there is a Mary Maisey five years younger - wife, sister? 10 years later, Margaret is listed as wife. Also on the 1841 census Robert is down as coming from Ireland but Scotland and Leicester 10 years later
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For parish records are there can be 2 copies, one kept in the parish and one sent to the Bishop of the diocese. They are not always copied as accurately as they should be.

The 1841 census just appears to be a mistake, listing Margaret as Mary. In 1851 and 1861 it is Robert and Margaret. Again, I wouldn't worry about the variations for Robert, I'd still favour Scotland.
 
I think Margaret preston died 1863. There is a record for Yarmouth, Maise - the y missing

I can only find a couple entries for margarets potential birth one in 1808
NameMargaret Preston
GenderFemale
Event TypeBaptism
Baptism Date4 Mar 1808
Baptism PlaceHales, England
Parents Benjamin and Phoebe

But the hints suggest this margaret married a Jillings
 
MWS said:
For parish records are there can be 2 copies, one kept in the parish and one sent to the Bishop of the diocese. They are not always copied as accurately as they should be.

The 1841 census just appears to be a mistake, listing Margaret as Mary. In 1851 and 1861 it is Robert and Margaret. Again, I wouldn't worry about the variations for Robert, I'd still favour Scotland.
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Yes I guess thats true, where records were copied multiple times so that leads to errors. Thanks for that, appreciated. It would make sense what you said earlier if Robert was the son of James and Elizabeth but still trying to locate the record.
 
re; your finding Matilda in the industrial school in 1871,
Industrial schools were for children who were likely to have turned to crime or were neglected.
For children of matildas age to be there was often because the Mother had died or 'vanished' and the father was unable to cope or the fathers new partner didn't want the child.
There appears to be no death of Sabina so she may have 'vanished'.
If she was Irish perhaps that is where she went.
 
Alberta said:
re; your finding Matilda in the industrial school in 1871,
Industrial schools were for children who were likely to have turned to crime or were neglected.
For children of matildas age to be there was often because the Mother had died or 'vanished' and the father was unable to cope or the fathers new partner didn't want the child.
There appears to be no death of Sabina so she may have 'vanished'.
If she was Irish perhaps that is where she went.
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i agree alberta...i have been following this thread keenly and my feeling is that at such a young age matilda would not have been at the school due to turning to crime...more likely through neglect and all the research carried out so far does suggest that sabina could have ended up in ireland..i am still hoping to locate the industrial school records which may shed more light as to the reason matilda was placed there..this will entail me going to the libaray twice...once to order up the records then again when they give me a date to go and view them...its all very long winded now

lyn
 
Vixen said:
I think Margaret preston died 1863. There is a record for Yarmouth, Maise - the y missing
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That's correct and Robert in 1864. They were both buried at St Nicholas, Great Yarmouth.

Margaret couldn't have been born in 1808 as she and Robert married in 1821.
 
Astoness said:
i agree alberta...i have been following this thread keenly and my feeling is that at such a young age matilda would not have been at the school due to turning to crime...more likely through neglect and all the research carried out so far does suggest that sabina could have ended up in ireland..i am still hoping to locate the industrial school records which may shed more light as to the reason matilda was placed there..this will entail me going to the libaray twice...once to order up the records then again when they give me a date to go and view them...its all very long winded now

lyn
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We have assumed that Sabina may be Irish, mainly due to the Catholic baptisms but there are other Catholic records associated with Thomas Maisey's relatives and it could be that side who were/became Catholic.
 
Astoness said:
i agree alberta...i have been following this thread keenly and my feeling is that at such a young age matilda would not have been at the school due to turning to crime...more likely through neglect and all the research carried out so far does suggest that sabina could have ended up in ireland..i am still hoping to locate the industrial school records which may shed more light as to the reason matilda was placed there..this will entail me going to the libaray twice...once to order up the records then again when they give me a date to go and view them...its all very long winded now

lyn
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Hi Lyn thanks. There are admission records for this period for the Gem Street Industrial School, under reference MS 994/5/1, plus other categories under MS 994/5. Could you also look for Eliza Mayes who was there too tho transcribed moyes but looks like Mayes on original document 1871 census. I read a newspaper article about a child placed into gem street due to neglect. Would the archives hold records on Sabina. And I agree with everyone that Matilda was 3, so maybe they’re out of poverty, neglect but Eliza was older and placed there also. She’s 8. John it could be said died through neglect in 1865 tho it was put down as accident.
 
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MWS said:
We have assumed that Sabina may be Irish, mainly due to the Catholic baptisms but there are other Catholic records associated with Thomas Maisey's relatives and it could be that side who were/became Catholic.
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I did question why the Horton children with Thomas and Eliza weren’t baptised?
 
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