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Jails Gaols Prisons

S

samurai

proper brummie kid
Hi all,
I've heard that the Sander and Kang building on Bradford street was once a jail, and the bricked up arches that I've always assumed were windows, were once open cells where all the dirt and dust from the road was blown into the faces of the prisoners. Does anyone know anything about this?
Sorry to babble on, but local history fascinates me, I just can't get enough of it.
Thanks for any help you can give
Eddie
 
Samurai

I don't think the present building now owned by Sander Kang was ever a prison, as I think it was built on the site of several smaller factories by Masons Grocers as a cold storage and warehouse for their goods and in later years several grocery firms rented sections of it. The bricked up windows would have been the cold storage.
 
Thanks Phil, I did wonder whether it was, I've never heard of a prison in brum other than winson green. I can't wait to show my mate the photos of the pub. I knew somebody on here would help.
Ed
 
there was an old jail at 131/148 high st bordesley which was excavated in 1995

here is one more pic showing just a bit of the pub..


lyn

6A__nos_32-35_Cheapside.jpg
 
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There was once a gaol in Moor Street, but that was in the early 1800's. I have heard quite a few stories about buildings that were apparently once gaols. One lady who came to clean the building I worked in in Waterloo Street told me that there was one in George Street off Newhall Street - she had heard 'lots of stories' about people who had been imprisoned there and they 'knew' it was a prison because there was a coat of arms on the outside of the building. The one she meant was actually a pin factory!!! I think some people just make it up as they go along.
 
Speaking of prisons, especially the older ones...anyone know where Philip Street was...home to this delightful sounding establishment named in Showell's Dictionary... ?
 

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Dennis Williams said:
Speaking of prisons, especially the older ones...anyone know where Philip Street was...home to this delightful sounding establishment named in Showell's Dictionary... ?
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dennis i think the debters prison must have been in phillips st aston very often it is spelt phillip st....and there was plenty of courtyards there...would love to find an old map showing the prison but given how small it was it may not be marked out on a map....this is very interesting...we do have an extensive thread for phillips st where i have posted lots of pre demo photos

the old goal in high st bordesly also mentioned in your snippet was excavated in 1995

lyn
 
Phillips Street roughly followed a parallel course with Hockley Brook in 1913. In the 1860s the Phillips Street location was sometimes referred to as Phillips Street Aston New Town and sometimes Phillips Street Aston Brook. No sign or reference to the old jail by the time of the map below but maybe someone has an earlier map. Viv.

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viv it was just 14ft square so i am wondering if it was thought worthy of adding to an old map....be great if we could find a map for around 1802 showing it

lyn
 
This building (right), at the junction of High Street and New Street (known as the Toll Booth or Town Hall and later the Leather Hall) had on the upper level a room about 50 feet long used for the Court Leet. On the ground floor was a prison used until 1697 when Peck Lane prison opened. Viv.

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The Debtors Prison in Philip Street of 1802 mentioned in the article in post #6 would have been used specifically to incarcerate people who had got into debt. They were usually held separately from other prisoners. By this time Peck Lane Prison would also have been in operation. (Peck Lane opened in 1697, was extended in 1757 and finally demolished to make way for the construction of New Street station which was opened in 1854).

So I assume by the early 1800s there must have been another (ie additional) but specific prison building behind the buildings somewhere along Philip Street.

Viv.
 
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Vivienne14 said:
This building (right), at the junction of High Street and New Street (known as the Toll Booth or Town Hall and later the Leather Hall) had on the upper level a room about 50 feet long used for the Court Leet. On the ground floor was a prison used until 1697 when Peck Lane prison opened. Viv.

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I'm not sure about that Viv. It does not fit the description in Showell. It also follows on from a description of a prison in Aston, which I would say sort of indicates that this was also in Aston. Phillip St in Aston (then without an s) was there in 1848 as shown on the map below, though I admit that was a number of years later .

map c1848 showing Phillip st.jpg
 
A little bit off on a tangent but an Alfred Bird (chemist) was living on Phillip(s) St in 1841. Would he be the custard Bird?
 
Thanks. It's seems a bit of a slight that he's only/mostly remembered for the custard.
 
The earliest newspaper reference I can find of Philip Street in Aston is in 1847. It is referred to as Philip Street, Aston Juxta Birmingham. Viv.
 
This was the Debtors Prison located in High Street. Once part of the residence of John Jennens. Sounds dreadful. It was closed in 1844. The image referred to isn't very clear but have still posted it. Viv. .
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Source: British Newspaper Archive (Evening News 26/6/1933)
 

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Interesting that they were in debtors' prison but could send out to purchase drink. :confused:
 
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