Help with Askey Family

[Adelesam]

I hope someone can help me. My great-grandfather George Alfred John Askey, l have his wedding certificate he married Mary Jane Elizabeth Scott on the 27 October 1889, he was 21 on the marriage certificate his father is Frederick Askey (deceased) and was a boatman. I have George Alfred John's death certificate he died in 1908. I have looked for his birth certificate but cannot find it. I did find a George Askey and it arrived today and on the certificate the father's name is Joseph. I do not know where to go from here.

 

[pjmburns]

Have you found him on any censuses? If his father was a boatman do you know his place of birth? So we can eliminate him in our search which certificate did you send for?

 

[MWS]

He's listed as John in 1891 and 1901. Birthplace is listed as Birmingham in 1891 and Aston in 1901.

Any clues from the marriage witnnesses?

 

[Astoness]

just had a look at the marr cert witnesses were richard browning and sarah ann yardley...i cant find a birth entry for him but if his parents were travelling boat people he could have been born anywhere and maybe his birth was not recorded so on the 1891 and 1901 he just put born birmingham because he lived there..

lyn

 

[Astoness]

found a burial for a john askey in 1908 buried aston age 39 place of death workhouse

 

[Adelesam]

Thank you all for your replies. I have attached the marriage certificate, death certificate and a copy of the certificate I thought was him. Thank you again for your information.

 

[Adelesam]

Have you found him on any censuses? If his father was a boatman do you know his place of birth? So we can eliminate him in our search which certificate did you send for?

I am sorry l do not know where he was born, l have attached some certificates l have

 

[Adelesam]

just had a look at the marr cert witnesses were richard browning and sarah ann yardley...i cant find a birth entry for him but if his parents were travelling boat people he could have been born anywhere and maybe his birth was not recorded so on the 1891 and 1901 he just put born birmingham because he lived there..

lyn

I have had a look on the GRO site and there is no trace of him

 

[Adelesam]

just had a look at the marr cert witnesses were richard browning and sarah ann yardley...i cant find a birth entry for him but if his parents were travelling boat people he could have been born anywhere and maybe his birth was not recorded so on the 1891 and 1901 he just put born birmingham because he lived there..

lyn

Thank you.

 

[Adelesam]

He's listed as John in 1891 and 1901. Birthplace is listed as Birmingham in 1891 and Aston in 1901.

Any clues from the marriage witnnesses?

On his death certificate he was in the Aston union workhouse which l think it is now Highcroft Hospital.

 

[MWS]

Very difficult to resolve this one I think. So much of the information could be suspect.

There is definitely no birth registration for him under Askey. Which as lyn mentioned could mean he was not registered.

Alternatively he could have been registered under another name, if for example he was illegitmate. He then may have taken his father's name (if he knew it) or his step father's if his mother re-married. However that doesn't help much because he doesn't appear on a census before 1891. I've looked at a number of George Alfreds registered Bham & Aston but none of them see likely.

If he was illegitimate the father's name and occupation could be suspect, possibly made up or a combination of a real and step father. It's also complicated by the name on the marriage and censuses. Was it George Alfred John or a different order maybe.

The complete absence of any likely Frederick Askey makes everything tricky. George naming a son John Frederick does seem to suggest someone named Frederick (father, step father, grandfather) but in a time before everyone could read and write his name could have been something else - Askew, Haskey being the most obvious.

 

[MWS]

On the 1871 & 1881 census there is a George Askey b1847 listed as a boatman.

So one scenario could be that George Alfred John was his illegitimate son and not registered. His mother for whatever reason marries someone else (a Frederick maybe) and in 1871 & 1881 he's listed under his mother's or step father's surname, though could be George, John or Alfred.

Or more than likely it's just coincidence.

 

[Astoness]

yes i agree MWS i have recently been helping a friend with her ancestry very tricky...family tales have it that she was born in ireland and came from boat family...the only concrete evidence i can find for her is on the 1911 census where she is down as married and she puts born birmingham i have her maiden name from her childrens baptisms...i cant find a birth...marriage or definate death either under her maiden name of her assumed married name and as i am the sort of person that will only go on concrete evidence i have had to put this one to bed...my point being that if she did come from boating family and was maybe orphaned she could quite easily have made up a surname for herself...lots of ifs and maybes but sometimes i think as much as we dont want to we just have to admit defeat if the evidence is not there..

lyn

 

[Adelesam]

Very difficult to resolve this one I think. So much of the information could be suspect.

There is definitely no birth registration for him under Askey. Which as lyn mentioned could mean he was not registered.

Alternatively he could have been registered under another name, if for example he was illegitmate. He then may have taken his father's name (if he knew it) or his step father's if his mother re-married. However that doesn't help much because he doesn't appear on a census before 1891. I've looked at a number of George Alfreds registered Bham & Aston but none of them see likely.

If he was illegitimate the father's name and occupation could be suspect, possibly made up or a combination of a real and step father. It's also complicated by the name on the marriage and censuses. Was it George Alfred John or a different order maybe.

The complete absence of any likely Frederick Askey makes everything tricky. George naming a son John Frederick does seem to suggest someone named Frederick (father, step father, grandfather) but in a time before everyone could read and write his name could have been something else - Askew, Haskey being the most obvious.

Thank you looking for me, l really appreciate it.

 

[Adelesam]

yes i agree MWS i have recently been helping a friend with her ancestry very tricky...family tales have it that she was born in ireland and came from boat family...the only concrete evidence i can find for her is on the 1911 census where she is down as married and she puts born birmingham i have her maiden name from her childrens baptisms...i cant find a birth...marriage or definate death either under her maiden name of her assumed married name and as i am the sort of person that will only go on concrete evidence i have had to put this one to bed...my point being that if she did come from boating family and was maybe orphaned she could quite easily have made up a surname for herself...lots of ifs and maybes but sometimes i think as much as we dont want to we just have to admit defeat if the evidence is not there..

lyn

Thank you.

 

[Adelesam]

On the 1871 & 1881 census there is a George Askey b1847 listed as a boatman.

So one scenario could be that George Alfred John was his illegitimate son and not registered. His mother for whatever reason marries someone else (a Frederick maybe) and in 1871 & 1881 he's listed under his mother's or step father's surname, though could be George, John or Alfred.

Or more than likely it's just coincidence.

Thank you.

 

[Astoness]

i wouldnt give up just yet though....something may turn up...all the best

lyn

 

[pjmburns]

On the 1871 & 1881 census there is a George Askey b1847 listed as a boatman.

Wonder if that is the one who features in 1890 on his son Frederick's marriage??

 

[Adelesam]

i wouldnt give up just yet though....something may turn up...all the best

lyn

Thank you, l will keep on looking. Thank you again for your help

 

[Adelesam]

Wonder if that is the one who features in 1890 on his son Frederick's marriage??

Thank you l will have a look.

 

[MWS]

Wonder if that is the one who features in 1890 on his son Frederick's marriage??

Boatman George doesn't appear to marry but a Frederick Askey son of George seems to be as equally elusive prior to his marriage as George Alfred John.

 

[pjmburns]

I have had trouble with "boat" people before. I think that because they moved a lot they didn't always register births etc.

 

[Adelesam]

I have found a John Askey and Mary Askey in the 1889 and 1901 cenus, it seems like they have dropped their first names as the children match in the 1901 census and they live in Milton Street which was the address on the marriage certificate.